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If you answer yes you are knocking the foundation out of Messianic Judaism.

When you say the church will dissapear by being raptured with a few token Jews you are saying gentile believers have a seprate destiny contrary to Romans 11.

Romans 11:26 says all Israel will be saved.  What is it you don't understand about that?  150 times in the Hebrew Bible kol Yisrael means National Israel every time.

Israel has been purged by its thousand year house of separation (Hosea 3:5) and doesn't need more purging.

All of you Replacement Theologians can come up with all kinds of meanings for "All Israel" other than the litteral meaning to support your church centered antisemitic universe.

No, no, no! There is no rapture and there is no future for the church seprate from National Israel!

"The church" (ekklesia- Mikra Kodesh) is comprised of both Jews and Gentiles.

"National Israel" is comprised of Messianic and non-Messianic Jews.

No, IMO, there is not a different path, or destination, for believers based on their lineage...and never has been.

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The rapture is not the "end of the story"...it is not the final destiny/destination, and all others locked out, people continue to become faithful/be saved. Furthernore, IF it had taken place in 100 AD, it would have been Jews with a few "token" gentiles. Lineage has nothing to do with it, faith *in Messiah* does. If there is a rapture it INCLUDES (part of) National Israel. The ones left will *see* with their eyes, like their forefathers at Sinai.

Is/was Enoch's destiny different than Noah's? No. Moses' destiny different than Elijah's? No. Ruth's destiny different from Esther's? No. Peter's destiny different than Cornelius'? No.

What is it about goats and sheep that you don't understand?

Not "all Israel" is faithful. Have you read the NT? Who was Jesus denouncing? Gentiles? Peter's ministry to The Circumcision (National Israel) an unnecessary waste of time? Jesus to Paul (National Israel) "Why are you persecuting ME?"

Karl Marx, saved? Carl Sagan, saved? Moses Maimonides, saved? Herod, saved?

We stand as individuals and are judged by God. His blood, not ours, saves.

"National Israel" split at Calvary. The Apostles and disciples went one direction, the rest another.

I am saying all Jews get raised from the dead just in time then all Israel gets saved.

Church=eccelesia=Kehilat=Congregation=Israel.

All Jews are with us but in a house of separtion (Hosea 3:5) even Judas.

The "church" is not "National Israel"...it is the "one new man" comprised of Jews and gentiles, BELIEVERS ALL. In the very beginning of "the church" it was 99.99% JEWISH! "Church" does not mean "Jews" nor does it mean "gentiles".

Unbelievers/unfaithful/goats, Jews and gentiles, have a different destiny (hell/eternal exile/cut off) than believers/faithful/sheep who will/do live in His Presence forever and ever, Amen.

And, once again, IF/WHEN there is a rapture/snatching up, JEWISH AND GENTILE FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST WILL LEAVE...not just gentiles. Who will be left? *ALL* THOSE WHO HAVE NOT TRUSTED IN HIS ATONEMENT: JEWS AND GENTILES.

"National Israel" will still be here and God will CONTINUE to work through them. You're trying to make some kind of anti-Semitic charges, tied to your opposition to a supernatural rapture, where there are none to be had.

Where in the heck do you get the idea of a universal salvation for "National Israel" apart from trusting in the blood of Yeshua HaMashiach? Certainly NOT from the pages of The Book!! He is the ONLY WAY to the Father.

He grafts in AND cuts off.

The Good News is for the Jews FIRST...now you are saying the Good News is "eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die AS JEWS"?? "Don't worry, be Kosher"?? Someone should have told the Apostles.....SARC!!

Your Faux Good News is the path to destruction for Jews, Chad. Go tell a Messianic congregation that they don't need Jesus, see what they say.

Our destination, Jew and gentile, is dependent upon only ONE JEW: Yeshua.

I seem to agree with you Ripleys, as Cain/ Able; Ismael/ Isaac; David/ Saul; Pharrisees/ Apostles. There is a good seed/bad seed throughout the Bible.G-d destroyed a portion of Jews;evil that worshipped the Golden calf? in Moses.I am not to judge salvation, but I do believe there is a special role of the Twelve Tribes of Israel; 144,000 Jews,and the gathered remnant in Israel; Jesus will show them his face; and some mens roles ;I believe are pre-destined;Is there a different grace for the Gentiles? It seems we must have that grace second after Israel, before gathering? It seems the church; Holy Spirit must be lifted for the antichrists darkness to expand,[ like in the other post;withdraw of light][ Rapture] for the tribulation to begin? I also believe His grace is greater than our understanding?[Forgiveness of sins] Sovereign of G-d? ;it seems some men are by G-d's seed implanted; in some, and not others?Isaiah 65 :10-12.There are many levels of relative positions in G-d's Kingdom; All of which ;the least would be infintissable to imagine of joy and understanding.Some that come last will be first, and some first shall come last? Maybe thats the closest explaination of gathering there is?I'm not sure choice means ;1 choice, and Hell ;certaintly wouldn't be the second vacation spot I would choose? It seems we are led to specific destinations , and purposes ; All designated by the Creator,and are accepted from our seeking Him, and eligibility is required by accepting His gift?[Jesus] ;though we do seem to have the unique ability to help shape our thoughts , and abilities ;to influence our destiny? There is One G-d, and only One way to Heaven; and that is by knowing who G-d is; And we shall only know the Father by knowing Jesus

If you draw the lines as an all national Israel box we are included as grafted in.

But if you draw the lines as the elect church national Israel is not included because right now they are in unbelief.

Where are you going to have your center of spiritual gravity, in the gentile church or in National Israel.  I can keep it in National ISrael cause I think GOd will save all of them cause they are elect and raise them from the dead and then they get saved.

-emphasis mine-

There is no such thing as "gentile church"...THE one and only church is comprised of Jews and gentiles. The "church" in Acts was 99.99% JEWISH. What don't you get about that? Quit posting false dichotomies.

I take National Israel to mean the lineage/DNA/bloodlines. If you mean something else, then state it.

Not *all* of National Israel is saved, the Bible says so and you said it yourself, some are unbelievers...if they are unbelievers, they are LOST. When individuals disregard Yeshua, they disregard ALL TANAKH...and their God and Godly heritage/culture in the process. They disbelieve GOD. Who's going to condemn them? Jesus said *Moses* was going to condemn them, because while claiming to be Torah observant, they throw out Torah observance by throwing out their Yom Kippur Atonement/Savior. They have gone their own way. Erected a Golden Calf called "Judaism". Effectively told God they DON'T believe His word. And they will be cut off and exiled, forever, if they don't repent.

Gentiles ARE grafted into His People, which is NOT the same as National Israel, just as Ruth was, BY FAITH.

There aren't two "His Peoples", just one: ALL those who trust Him. All of those who don't are "Not His People", whether they are of Jewish lineage or not.

Our "center of spiritual gravity" is Yeshua HaMashiach. Remember, the Gospel is for the Jews FIRST...not optional.

No, not EVERY Israelite will be saved now, in the past, or in the future.

What part of remnant do you not understand? The "remnant" IS the "all".

If "all Israel" means the church then what is so shocking and mysterious about that? Romans 11:26

It has to be that all National Israel is saved for it to be shocking and mysterious.

Rip-you aren't getting anywhere by rehashing old hash browns.