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Many people feel that Ephraim is Great Britian and Manasseh is USA. We know that these 2 tribes were very blessed. So, if these countries are actually represented by these tribes, then does that necessarily mean that these 2 countries will also have the worst tribulation (hence, Jacob's trouble)?? And, why are they so blessed but so troubled...??

Krisi, I will refrain from determining the genealogy of the English and the Americans from the tribes.

However, let me refresh your memory.  Let's go back to the promise of the Lord G-d to Avraham.  His eternal promise saying that "I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse those who curse you (Avraham's descendants through the promise - Yitzhak and Ya'akov).

Great Britain, though in a flawed manner, was instrumental in the re-establishment of the nation of Israel.  And America has continually supported Israel since the nation was reborn in 1948.

However, like all nations that commit sin on a national scale, the Lord G-d will not be happy with.  And for that, they are reaping what they have sown - yet they still retain some of the blessing for supporting Israel.

When they stop, which may happen with an Obama presidency, the situation could deteriorate quite fast.

Hope that helps!

krisi~



and

PanchoA~



*LOL* I won't refrain. I don't hold to that view at all. While there are members of the tribes (all of them) who are "lost" in all the countries of the world, I don't think that USA and England are majority the Nation/Tribes of Israel. If they are, He will gather them back to Israel with the rest of His People.

It's all about Israel/Jerusalem, not Washington DC, or Wall Street, or London.

With that said, I agree with what PanchoA went on to say. Including that the time is coming when we will turn our backs on Israel; intentionally with foreign policy changes, or because we are rendered unable/useless, or both? WOES US!

You could generally say America and the UK are sheep nations at least now but could become goat nations.

Russia has historically been a goat nation.

Anglo Israelites make Messianic Jews nervous because it is like they are saying they have replaced Israel or something like that.  Anglo Israelites can be extream in claiming things like Joseph of Arimethea went to the British Isles and that is why they have long noses and things like that.

To me anglo Israelites are like the Tony Alamo cult or something like that.

I thought Israel is so blessed but so troubled...

And to Ishmael was given the promise of becomming a huge nation... For Abraham will have Children about as much as the stars in heaven...
(well I even think I saw more Arabs in my life than stars... but The Almighty knows better then me off course).

As an addendum, Ripley's - I'm not quite sure about this - but since the Oslo accords were hammered out during the Clinton administration, things  became worse for the United States.  Should the Obama administration (largely composed of Clinton administration reappointees) aggressively pursue the key points of the Oslo accord, let's see what will be the result.

If my hunches are right, going back to the original scripture verse I cited about the blessing to Avraham - "...I will bless those that bless you (Israel) and curse those that curse you" - the US will reap even worse curses for attempting to divide Jerusalem and Israel.  And worse, the reverse will happen.

I cite the two instances of the Six Day war and the Yom Kippur war, where Israel GAINED more land as a result of being attacked by the various Arab confederacies that sought to destroy Israel.  What they sowed, they reaped - defeat in a magnitude that they chose to refer to it as Al Naqba, and more land for Israel. Truly, the Lord G-d's promise remains true towards Israel to this day.

It is sad because I know that the large majority of believers in the Lord Yeshua continue to pray, and be a blessing to Israel despite the fact that most hardline Jews revile them with a passion.  It is not ours to convince them.  In my case, as with most of my fellow believers that uphold the primacy of Israel as the Lord G-d's chosen nation, we pray for and bless Israel and when He so chooses to, reveal to them that the Lord Yeshua is their Messiah.

Shalom and blessings to both of you!

PanchoA~



Well, I am a hardcore conservative and a registered and active Republican...but to be honest, my brother, all sides are guilty of being "wishy washy" toward Israel and the Middle East...and making way for the "New World Order" of anti-Christ by blurring the lines of national sovereignty, squandering national wealth...beginning right here in America.

Yes, I think the Left is MUCH MORE overt about it. But "the church" in America has left the Bible, foresaken God, and we are reaping THAT, too.

However, in the end, it's God, and God alone, Who will be glorified, and all the nations will know it.




I KNOW!! -gleeful excitement!!- (Temple Mount/Dome of the Rock next?)

My most earnest prayers for Israel, His Forever Beloved.

ummm... About the church in America, I will withhold my comments. I had the good fortune of visiting some when I travelled with my little family in December 2007, and I was very taken by the move of G-d in America.

I sometimes wish that this was present in Cebu, in the Philippines where I  live, but looking back, I recall that there was never this many new church congregations apart from the traditional ones in the 1960's and 70's, and they are growing.

Rediscovering our links to Israel is something that's beginning to take root in a more intelligent way now, and I find more people praying for Israel and Yerushala'yim.  I pray that we discover that the key is to "bless" Israel, that we may be blessed as a group of believers, and as a country.

The Philippine vote in 1948 was the crucial vote in the UN during the vote to recognize Israel as a nation. There was thunderous applause in the audience when the Philippine vote was cast by the late Carlos P. Romulo. From there, it was a landslide victory.

The result of the Arab confederacy invasion that followed right after just served to demonstrate the faithfulness of the Lord G-d to Israel, not because He was merciful, but because He remains true to every word He says.

I pray that we will remain steadfast in the support of the nation of the descendants of Avraham, Yitzhak and Ya'akov in the turbulent times ahead.