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Brian Roy,

4 x 0 = 0.

Your translation of "salvation" is flawed. I will say it again, over and over;

The Hebrew word for salvation specifically means to be saved from our enemies and in times of trouble.

It has nothing, nothing to do with a messiah.

Of course, you are always entitled to your own opinion.

Hashem is our saviour, not jc.

Isaiah 45:
I am HaShem, and there is none else, beside Me there is no G-d;

Notice it doesn't say "we" are Hashem or "there is none else beside "us" there is no G-d"?


17 O Israel, that art saved by HaShem with an everlasting salvation; ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Notice how we have an "everlasting" salvation. No need for jc to save us.

22 Look unto Me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am G-d, and there is none else.

Notice it doesn't say "look unto "us" and be ye saved. or for "we" are G-d. The next line pretty much spells it out.
THERE IS NONE ELSE! That means nothing else can be claimed as G-d, not a human incarnate, not a messiah, not anything else you can imagine. There is NONE else!

Pretty clear to me!

xtians can't use the "us" line from Genesis and dismiss what Hashem is saying here.

SMR,

    Ever read the Hebrew?   It's required when BEFORE you try to counter regarding the "spelling".

The same G-D who saves with an everlasting Salvation (spelled TeSHUAT), the G-D of Israel, is more than 12 times called / identified as Yeshua in Isaiah.   And yes, Yeshua is Jesus.

The same G-D who saves with an everlasting Salvation, the G-D of Israel, is more than 40 times NAMED as Yeshua in the Psalms.  And yes, Yeshua is Jesus.


The same G-D who  saves with an everlasting Salvation, the G-D of Israel, is CLEARLY identified by Father Jacob by Divine Revelation and by Moses at the Red / Reed Sea.  And Moses HIMSELF convicts YOU, because by the Ruach HaKodesh, he spake in times ancient of people like you (as if a yeshu-run) who will scorn the Maqor of Living Waters, the G-D of Israel.  

Hannah, the mother of Samuel, in the Spirit of the Ruach HaKodesh  identifies Israel's true King before Israel goes astray.

In the days of her son's ministry, Israel demands to be like the Gentiles, demanding a man upon an earthly or earthy throne -- when G-D in Heaven is Israel's King.   They did not reject Samuel, they rejected HASHEM Messhiach (as Lamentations 4:20 calls him later on), whom Hannah calls YESHUA.

Yeshua is the G-D of Israel, the G-D of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the G-D of Moses, the G-D of Hannah and Samuel, the G-D of King David, the G-D of Isaiah.    

And yes, Yeshua is Jesus.

Notice it doesn't say "we" are Hashem or "there is none else beside "us" there is no G-d"?

smr again we believe God is singular plural that each persons is fully God there are One essence.

They speak as One.


Notice how we have an "everlasting" salvation. No need for jc to save us.


everlasting in what means?  God is clear to make a new agreement with israel Not base on the Old he will never leave them without One this is how I see it.



Notice it doesn't say "look unto "us" and be ye saved. or for "we" are G-d. The next line pretty much spells it out.
THERE IS NONE ELSE! That means nothing else can be claimed as G-d, not a human incarnate, not a messiah, not anything else you can imagine. There is NONE else!


again Smr singular plural you have a hard time understanding that.

They speak as a whole singular

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/finaltorah.html

read that smr you see everlasting does not mean always being the same but that God will never leave Israel salvation will always be possible but not always in the same manner.

I see that you actually believe this nonsense! So, wherever in the Bible you have a word with those 4 letters it is referring to Jesus; makes it a bit difficult if the writer wanted it to mean its natural meaning only.




Care to explain these?

"Your translation of "salvation" is flawed. I will say it again, over and over;

The Hebrew word for salvation specifically means to be saved from our enemies and in times of trouble.

It has nothing, nothing to do with a messiah."

That is always the way I have understood salvation.  Do you mean to say that a messiah would never be involved in such saving activity?  If you do, I send you to talk to a rabbi, because I know that Judaism DOES believe that the Messiah will save.  You might as well talk about a shepherd that does not care for sheep.

I just add a couple aspects to your definition of salvation.  One is that salvation can be spiritual as well as physical, from spiritual enemies and spiritual trouble.  The New Testament point of view is that the spiritual comes first, with the physical still in the future.  The other aspect is that salvation from enemies and trouble is often required due to malfeasance on the part of the troubles ones.  Therefore, a complete salvation would necessarily involve correcting the malfeasance.  That is exactly what the Messiah must do.  This is exactly the work of Jesus Christ.

"So, wherever in the Bible you have a word with those 4 letters it is referring to Jesus;"

Maybe a better way to say this is that Jesus was named Yeshua "salvation" because he came as the Saviour.  I don't think it is right to say that every mention of salvation is speaking of that Yeshua.

"Isaiah 45:
I am HaShem, and there is none else, beside Me there is no G-d;

Notice it doesn't say "we" are Hashem or "there is none else beside "us" there is no G-d"?"

There is definitely only one G-d.  But this one G-d has many parts (the "us" of Genesis 1 and Isaiah 6:8).  He sent His Word to heal rebellious sinners (Psalm 107:20).  He sent His Arm to bring salvation (Isaiah 52:10).  He used His Hand to create the heavens and earth (Isaiah 66:2).  Saying that G-d provided eternal salvation and thus Yeshua is not necessary is like saying that G-d provided salvation and therefore did not need His Arm to do it.  No, He used His Arm, Yeshua, to bring salvation.  However, the salvation is not consummated yet, obviously.  It won't be consummated until everyone accepts THE Yeshua of G-d.

While Israelites like you continue to say, "We don't need nor want Yeshua," yet, Yeshua has always been the only means of G-d to bring salvation, Israel will not receive her salvation.  Abraham accepted Yeshua, Jacob accepted Yeshua, Moses accepted Yeshua, David accepted Yeshua, Isaiah accepted Yeshua.  How did you decide that you don't need Yeshua?  I know, I know.  "HaShem alone is enough," you say.  But you ought to have to openness and common courtesy to let HaShem tell you what means He wishes to use or does not wish to use.  To demand that He act without His Word or His Arm is simple arrogance.  That kind of arrogance on the part of the leaders of Israel 2000 years ago is why the second Temple was destroyed.  Yeshua is not a separate God;  He is the only Word of the only G-d made flesh.

There's nothing like reading the Bible in Hebrew. What passage are you talking about exactly?



Nonsense. Identify even one passage in which God is called "Yeshua" or identified with him, please. Certainly, you don't think the feminine noun teshu'ah means "Jesus"?



Again, that's just nonsense.



Cut out the rambling, please, and make a clear claim.

I assume the reason you keep repeating that "yes, Yeshua is Jesus" is simply because you want us to agree with you that the feminine noun yeshu'ah (and, apparently also teshu'ah) are references to Jesus. Is that it? Do you believe that any time that these words appear in the text of the Bible it's a reference to Jesus? Sounds like you are the one who needs to read the Bible in Hebrew a bit more. "Deliverance" is not a code word for "Jesus."

Baruch

Brian Roy,

Well, since I am always honest, I can honestly say that don't read Hebrew (very little if any). But I will tell you I have many friends both in the US, Israel and abroad who DO speak and read Hebrew very well.

So with that said I ask you this.

The word for "salvation" or "deliverance" is usually "éùåòä yeshu'ah".

Now if you really think this word refers to jc, I'll ask you this.

Was jc a woman?

The word "éùåòä yeshu'ah" is in the feminine.

The text says "deliverance" (éùåòä) not "Jesus" (éùåò). It's a feminine noun from the word "he delivered" (äåùéò). It has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus in any of these contexts. You're simply eisegeting your beliefs into the Tanakh, which is completely inappropriate and dishonest.

Baruch