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We don't know exactly why there is circumcision, some reasons are known. But the main commandment is there that we have to DO it, unless we die. In Torah some people almost died, just because of the fact that they where not circumsized. But we never made the dogma that ''circumcision is our salvation'' as the N.T. claims.
Only TheAlmighty is true salvation. And I believe that every person has to return back to The Almighty and repent, search Him etc.
If you even believe that a Torahscroll or Person as Messiach or King is your Holy item and start to worship the Torahscroll... it doesn't make sence, ONLY The Almighty decides. And a person decides by doing and listening.

Like in the Christian Testament is a story about what a criminal should do after the fact... Well work with his hands etc.  Also there they don't say, oh... we BELIEVE that he changed his mind and is now a nice believer. No Do something also...

Greetings.

Hi Yetzirah231;

I have read over your two posts as an answer to mine, and perhaps I should be more specific, because I really quoted you, and then had your answer seem to address issues as if I were the originator...so, let us agree that perhaps being more specific could address this?

I am referring to Erev Yom Kippur and the man made superstitions that go along with it in order to fulfill the LORD's salvation requirements prior to the actual day the LORD says will be atonement enough.  For example:
It is customary to give increased charity on Erev Yom Kippur as charity helps to repeal any evil decrees. (see Kaparot section below).
Kaparot - An ancient and mystical custom designed to imbue people with a feeling that their very lives are at stake as the holy Yom Kippur approaches.
The kaparot ceremony symbolizes our sins crying out for atonement, and as a reminder that our good deeds, charity and repentance can save us from the penalty our many sins deserve.

So, salvation may be of the LORD, but it is clear that religion has taken to pre-atonement ritual that will save us from penalty that the LORD may or may not be preparing to impude upon mankind on the Day of Atonement.  When I read the account of what the LORD requires on the Day of Atonement...it is repentance...not acts of charity.  It is solomn reflection and prayer for return to a right relationship...not pre day feasting, so that you can "endure" the fasting for one day.

I just think both Judiasm and Christianity lack the guts to allow the LORD to be the Promise Keeper.  Just believe Him, do what He has had written down for you (or me, too) and let the organized religious world be on their guard, because many, many who say "LORD, LORD," will hear in return  "Depart from me, I knew you not!"  I seek, daily, the fellowship described in the Word of the LORD, and I tell anyone who will listen, that He has made promises, and will keep them.  

So, belief is that for me.  

I am staring a world in the face, that, quite honestly, feels to me like it teaches and preaches there is need to help the LORD keep His promises.  An Almighty that is a bit needy; a bit out of touch with 'what the world is really like' too, I have felt.  

I have tried to be more specific, here, will look for your reply.

bye for now,
kimberly

4everhisown

O.K. now understand more specific what the question is, althoug (erev) Yom Kippur is a big subject. Also Yom Kippur is mainly a Jewish thing, and Rosh HaShannah is more the new year and kaporet for the non-jews, (re-)creation of the whole world.
Beside that The Almight gave us 10 days of repentence, so the whole 10 days of repentence are preperation.

And of course we should try to be/act like rightious givers, like Tzadikim means a rightious person, and Tzedakah means charity, and Tzadok could mean thinking right... etc. we have in Hebrew no English problem of saperating Repentence and Charity that much.   It's almost the same as in Hebrew God's Love means Love and Rightiousness, those 2 can't be seperated, while Christians tend to focus mainly on Love.

Besides that we argue and ''fight'' with God, that's partly why Abraham and Jakob where so rightious. If God allready wants to destroy a city, beg Him not to do it for the 10 ''rightious'' people who might live there.
Trying to do rightiousness before The Almighty's judgement doesn't seem wrong.
And by that it's not a misticall but logicall way of living for us.
Off course we should try to be all year arround rightious.


First off all I think with every repentence there are a few stages.
First off all you have to ask forgiveness to others before you come to The Almighty and ask/give forgiveness for a situation you had with others. I think this is also a Christian concept, allthough people there tend to think that God will fix everything. So anyway you have to make things right before Yom Kippur. And you had to be shure if you gave at least 10 percent of your crops, income etc. So it's also like being your own accountant before The Almighty writes everything in his book. Did you give enough charity, to others, Priests etc, acc. to the Law?


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Than also to a woman (in John 8) is said: ''go and don't sin anymore''. So she has to listen and do... some kind of after-Yom Kippur feast you might call that.
Salvation but listen to the commandments.
So while The Almighty allready wrote the verdicts in his book, within the 10 days you still have the option also to show that you realy mean to change your ways.
More later

You have, at last, answered my question!

Read below from leviticus 23:23-28 ...my question stands...where does it say you need to do good works?

The LORD told Moses to give these instructions to the Israelites: "On the appointed day in early autumn, you are to celebrate a day of complete rest. All your work must stop on that day. You will call the people to a sacred assembly--the Festival of Trumpets--with loud blasts from a trumpet.  You must do no regular work on that day. Instead, you are to present offerings to the LORD by fire."
Then the LORD said to Moses,  "Remember that the Day of Atonement is to be celebrated on the ninth day after the Festival of Trumpets. On that day you must humble yourselves, gather for a sacred assembly, and present offerings to the LORD by fire. Do no work during that entire day because it is the Day of Atonement, when atonement will be made for you before the LORD your God, and payment will be made for your sins.

4everhisown

Now you are talking about Yom Kippur, and not Erev Yom Kippur.
So beforehand we have to prepare etc.
Again not only 1 day before YK we should do good, etc.

God Commandent us so many things to do, and to do good. So I think you can read whole Torah over and find 180 places at least where it's commanded to do good, and to circumsize the heart, ears, and flesh etc.

Even Jezus/or N.T. said once about criminals, that after they regocnized and stop their behavior, that they should do works with their hands...
Doing is a logicall thing and a commandment.
I can't help it that Christianity took all kind of Greek approaches, that believing is something else than doing. And that Love is seperated in 3 forms etc.
Hebrew (as The Almighty's gave his teachings in this language) has another approach, where Love also has also kind of expectations, wanting that The Almighty and we DO things for eachother.
A marriage like: ''You have to believe only that I love you, or that everything is done out of Agape'' is not in our tekstbooks.
So there is no option, to believe without Doing.

But wasn't it by Hebrew men who translated from Hebrew to Greek? I don't mean to be off topic but you stated " I can't help it that Christianity took all kind of Greek approaches, that believing is something else than doing. And that Love is seperated in 3 forms etc." The reason why Christian took the Greek because it was the popular language at the time with the NT was written. Then leads me to my question for you....Because we are in the times where English is popular are you going to say "The Jews that choose English's ways are invalid because it isn't in Hebrew language..." Last time I checked the Hebrew scribes translated the Bible. They translated the Tanakh and the New Testament. When you speak of "...Christianity..." you are also speaking against your fellow Jew, who were the ones, who started the group of Christianity. They are still Jews. That approach of Greek/Christianity you mention was the start of Hebrew/Jewish doing right. Christianity started with the Jews. So by you stated that comment you are going against your own people....Jews.

this is also in the NT, a faith without works, is dead;  I am pretty sure that is the same as what you say? isn't it?

I agree that the OT and the NT have so many, many places that ask for action, and trust and faith ...comes from hearing the Word of the LORD, and the action you take, is based on knowing whom you have believed, I say.

If you do not know Him, you should not do anything in His name, period.  It is better to be cold and uninterested, than to proclaim a LORD that you do not know.

wise men still seek Him, and you should not rely on some osmosis of another having found Him, leaking some kind of experience to you.  The LORD did give us agape, and does love each of His Own.  But, agape cannot take the place of your circumcision of the heart and ears....Yes, He loved us first ...but if we do not respond to His voice and commands??? Then what????

bye for now,
kimberly

Time to get back on track, here a few that I know of

    * Rabbi Isaac Lichtenstein, Orthodox rabbi from Hungary: "I will remain among my own nation. I love Messiah, I believe in the New Covenant, but I am not drawn to join Christendom. Just as the prophet Jeremiah...chose to remain and lament among the ruins of the holy city with the despised remnant of his own people, so I will remain among my own brethren, as a watchman from within and to plead with them to behold Yeshua the true glory of Israel."

    * Rabbi Dr. T. Tirschtiegel of Breslau: "Thou dear brother Yeshua, also my brother and my Savior who has at last led me to your Salvation."

    * Rabbi Max Wertheimer, D. D. (Reform): "In Messiah I have found my only abiding comfort for every sorrow."

    * Rabbi Rudolf Hermann Gurland, from Vilna: "Yeshua haMashiach is a living, mighty Savior. He can protect me; if he does not, I am willing to suffer, and to die for him."

    * Rabbi Asher Levy (ordained orthodox in Romania; later served in Belgium and Hungary): "I want to confirm that my heart does not condemn me for my new belief, because I feel that I am still a Jew and shall always be a Jew. I have not renounced our inheritance of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Like Paul I can say, 'Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? So am I.'"

    * Rabbi Chil Slostowski: "At first I was no more than a secret believer. In my inward being I knew that Yeshua was the Messiah of Israel and my personal Redeemer but I continued nonetheless to fulfill my tasks and duties as rabbi. Two months I lived like this...At last I realized that I could no longer live a double life...I had to confess the messiah publically - whatever the consequences might be."

    * Rabbi Leopold Cohn, D.D.; Rabbi Charles Freshman; Rabbi George Benedict; Rabbi Ephraim Ben Joseph Eliakim; Rabbi Henry Bregman, and many, many more could be added to this list....

Can't you find any contemporary ones? Almost all the above converted more than 100 years ago.

I can produce a list of 40 members of the clergy who converted to Orthodox Judaism, the vast majority of whom are still alive.

Rabbi Simcha Pearlmutter
http://www.sa-hebroots.com/testimony_rab...mutter.php

alive and well, living in the desert of Israel, Orthodox Jew, believes in Yeshua, Messiah.

nice guy, seems to have a lot to say about the LORD and his,(Rabbi Pearlmutter's) appointment to represent the people of the LORD.

bye for now,
kimberly