JFJ Forums

Hello,

I'm curious, the other day I read in David Sterns "Messianic Judaism" book that he considers the phrase "Christian" to be insulting to a Messianic Jew.

In fact, he even goes so far as to say that Sh'mon Kefa (Peter) also considered the label disparaging.  When Peter says that one might "suffer as a Christian" Mr. Stern takes that to mean being called a Christian at all.  Literally, he says that for Messianic Jews, the idea of being associated with a gentile (who has the Spirit of God) is INSULTING.

He points out the epistle is written to Jewish people in the diaspora, which was Peter's assigned ministry contrary to Paul who was sent to the gentiles.

Honestly -- does anybody beside me find that interpretation to be offensive and even dubious?  

Would the Apostle Peter really teach that gentiles washed in the "blood of God" (Acts 20:28) and filled with his Spirit are somehow something to be ashamed of being associated with, to such an extent that it's an "insult" to call a Messianic Jew a "Christian"?  

Christian only means "Anointed" in Greek, a follower of the Anointed One Yeshua. Is Mr. Stern supporting the same division that Paul rebuked Peter for as he recounts in Galatians (of all epistles)?

All I can say is, "Wow".  I personally find Mr. Sterns claim pretty unreasonable, and obviously to be taking what Peter wrote completely out of context.  The suffering he refers to is clearly about suffering secular penalty for irresponsible actions, which bring no benefit to the Christian unlike suffering for the name of Yeshua.

If Mr. Stern can so misread the Scripture, I have reservations about his already liberalized translation.  He drops the reference to "Arcangel" from 1 Thessalonians with no justification whatsoever, and he also adds terms like changing "Judaism" to "traditional Judaism".  I know why he does that, but the original Greek simply did not contain it.

Let us Pray for Mr. Stern, and those of his warped belief.

In Messiah.  Arley,  A man belonging to Christ, thus 'Christian.'

I'm not a Christian, but I agree. They want to believe the tenets, the
faith of Christianity, but then they are offended to be labeled as such.
My view is that they feel calling themselves "Christians" will some how
make them less of a Jew, which is complete nonsense. Once a Jew
always a Jew, even if they have strayed from the faith.

The other reason I can see him adopting this attitude is most Jews
have a visceral dislike of Jews that convert to Christianity (which is
what Jews believe "Messianic" Judaism is). With the thousands of
years of persecutions of Jews by Christians, it's an understandable
reaction.

I guess he feels if he steers clear of the label "Christian" it makes him
look better in his own eyes and in the eyes of other Jews.
In which case he is wrong.

And such an viewpoint really is insulting to gentiles.

Of course we should pray about this, I do believe Mr. Stern states that in salvation Jewish and Christian believers are clearly equal.  

I strongly disagree with his claim that the term "Christian" would not apply to Jewish believers; he clearly is doing this to duck and weave around claims that Judaism is superceded by Christianity -- which would mean Jewish people have converted to a new religion.

I empathize with him on his dilemma, but I wish he had the courage to say that Christianity is really another name for Messianic Judaism rather than being a different religion.

This would allow him to accept that Jewish and non-Jewish believers are free to be known as Anointed Ones.

I agree with you. It is interesting that many gentile Messianics
refuse to be called "Christian" and are actually insulted to
be called so.

Sheitl Queen,

I appreciate your honest assessment.  

I'd like to point out that most persecution of Jewish people occurred at the hands of Roman Catholics, who also brutally persecuted Protestants.  I was shocked to learn that Hitler, Franco and Mussolini were all Catholic.  They once controlled all of European life and nearly did so again.  

It is alleged that the "Sound of Music" was funded by the Catholic lobby as a total whitewash -- I admit, I was utterly fooled.  In reality, the Roman church celebrated Hitler's birthday and nuns and priests marched proudly in Nazi rallies. Joseph Kennedy was a Nazi sympathizer trying to keep England out of the war against Hitler, until he was returned to the United States in disgrace. A recent PBS documentary on the Kennedy family documented this quite clearly, along with the falsified Presidential election results.

Most Protestant Christians do not consider Roman Catholics as true Christians because instead of faith in Christ, they support the notion that the Catholic wafer is *literally* the body of Christ rather than a mere symbol of it.  The Catholic church officially declares a curse of anathema to any who deny this "Jesus cookie" doctrine, but in the modern world at the moment they have been unable to legally enforce it without Fascism. Catholics are great supporters of other anti-orthodox ideas in Christianity, many of which blatantly violate the rudiments of the Torah.

I was raised in a Roman Catholic home, and I'm well aware of the strong climate of anti-semitism in the spirit world among those homes, lying dormant for now. I experienced the smoking, the drinking, the gambling, the idolatry, etc. all first hand.

I don't believe for an INSTANT that Messianic Judaism is the same as "Christianity" if Roman Catholicism is how modern Jews define it.

It is proper for Messianic Jews to distance themselves from it, but I think they could be more clear in their distinctions by admitting (with pride) the overpowering influence of Protestantism in MJ congregations.

I personally believe the Royal family of England may be one of the lost tribes, whose unwitting worship of "Jehovah" in the King James Bible radically changed history.  

The letter J was pronounced softly during that time, meaning they called on HaShem and his Son in earnest.  I find the possibility rather intriguing.

Today, the Eastern half of the former Roman Empire is controlled by Islam. I could go on for quite some time on that subject as well.

No, we see it as an off shoot of Protestant Christianity...
after all the modern Messianic movement was started by
a baptist minister (and the founder of J4J and this forum).

Most  Messianics I have seen online or met come from a
Protestant background.

I did not mean to imply that the Messianic faith was
aligned in anyway with the Catholic faith  

Sheitl Queen,

I am Christian, but I believe that Elohim always intended for a global human family, united by the common culture of Messianic Judaism -- an ethnically inclusive Judaism that has been culminated with universal atonement.

By this reasoning, all people would keep the Shabbat and the three major holy days would bring Israel unimaginable real estate wealth as a blessing. (It is conveniently located at the cross roads of Europe, Asia and Africa).
  
The idea is to synchronize the whole world under God's "pro-family" commandments, with Yeshua providing the blood atonement required by Leviticus 17:11.

I've been told that Lubavitchers and Chabad House people actively place curses and use other forms of witchcraft against the Messianic Jews. Is that true?  (That would make me very sad, I know so many nice Jewish people who are such a blessing to me, including non-Messianic ones).

Should not they encourage Teshuvah instead?  

Didn't HaShem make clear in the Torah that Judaism was "one Torah for BOTH the homeborn, and the foreigner?"

No, that is completely NOT true. It is a falsehood.

Chabad out reaches to all Jews. Our local
Chabad has only had one Messianic who was halachaly
Jewish attend some of their events, and he was politely
treated. Other Chabads work very hard at getting any
Jews who have strayed into the Messianic (or other)
faith to do teshuva and return to Judaism and Torah.

"Cursing and witchcraft" are against Torah, and against
what Chabad stands for.

Lev 17:11-13 is against the eating of blood. It does not say that
blood is the only way for atonement.







No. In only certain circumstances was Torah law applicable to
non-Jews living amongst b'nai Israel.