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By this logic, we were similarly in disobedience during the Babylonian exile, and again during the Greek occupation prior to the Maccabeean Revolt.  The same goes for anyone who was in a state of ritual defilement even when the Temple stood.

The prophet Hosea, foreseeing the Babyloninan exile, anticipated your point and said, "And we shall offer the bulls of our lips" (14:2).  In other words, prayer can substitute for sacrifices when sacrifices cannot be offered.

How do you understand Hosea's words?

"Interestingly enough, also keeping some of the mitzvot would be terrible."
Prowler agrees with the above statement.

Sometimes we need to take a closer look at what the Torah requires for breaking the Sabbath mitzvot?

What is the penalty for breaking the Sabbath? The penalty is death!
Now who is prepared to put someone to death for breaking the Sabbath in light of our current revelation and knowledge of G-d?
Would it be good if Isra'el enforced this Law?
My answer is NO it would be terrible if Isra'el enforced some of the commandments!

Even Jew4Judaism doesn't keep this commandment despite the fact that he claims to reject Yeshua's message!

Repentance and turning back to G-d does not mean judgment has been waved, for often there is a penalty for sin; especially when one is under the Mosaic Law!

If you read the Tanakh carefully you will discover that this end times regathering has nothing to do with Isra'el's repentance and heart but rather with G-d's will to gather them together again.
Grace and repentance will eventually come to Isra'el but it will not come until the nations put enormous pressure on Isra'el.


Mat 23:37-39 NIV  O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.  (38)  Look, your house is left to you desolate.  (39)  For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’ [Psalm 118:26]

Daniel and others believed in the coming Messiah, looking at David's Psalms it was obviously taught that God's Messiah would suffer and die for Israel's sins. So believing they waited for the day they would be set free.

Defeat death. Hosea 13:14 1 Corinthians 15:55-57

Ho:13:14: I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.


1Co:15:55: O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Co:15:56: The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1Co:15:57: But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.


Other scripture:
Ro:8:2: For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Ro:8:3: For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Ro:8:4: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Prowler: Would you then sit in judgment of G-d?  Would you call His decrees evil?  You have blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

Indeed I do believe that Sabbath desecrators should be stoned.  However, the death penalty has so many caveats that its application is virtually impossible.

First, the Talmud learns out from verses that the death penalty can only be applied when the Sanhedrin is sitting on the Temple Mount.  The Sanhedrin was disbanded under Roman persecution and cannot be reconvened until Elijah the prophet returns.

And even in ancient times, there had to be two witnesses.  At least one of the witnesses had to warn the transgressor he was about to commit a capital sin (according to one opinion in the Talmud, he had to specify the manner of execution), and the transgressor had to respond, "I know, and I'm doing it anyway."  The witnesses were interrogated, separately, regarding the minutest details of the crime.  If they agreed on every last detail, their testimony is thrown out as a collusion.  If they are related, they are disqualified.  Etc.

First of all only 2 people entered the promised land. The 11 day journey from Egypt took 40 years.

God's laws of punishment are His righteous penalty for sin.

BUT is mercy desired, is forgiveness for yourselves, your loved ones, your neighbours and even you enemies. Don't you wish everyone Loved God, and did no harm.
This is what the Lord taught.

When Dinah was taken Hamor was killed in fact they killed all the males.
Poor Hamor, my heart breaks for him.

Joseph suffered at the hands of his brothers. Poor Jacob he went through an awefull lot!

You J4J casting a spiritual stone can be harmfull to the reciever. You better know what your doing. THINK you can walk with MOSES and the LAW! 2 original entered the Land.

MY TESTIMONY
I deserved to die more than once but Jesus my Saviour saved me. Mercy, He is teaching me.
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Lu:10:21: In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

NEW COVENANT AS TAUGHT BY GOD'S ONLY BEGOTTEN SON IS WHAT I DESIRE TO LEARN.

Friend I leave room for G-d to do the judging!

You have added to what I said and believe; not deliberately but because of your false assumptions.

You see I believe the Torah is holy but it is each of us (plural) who fall short in keeping the commandments! Now if I am a sinner and don't always keep the Sabbath perfectly how could I stone another for breaking the same commandment? That would be double standards and hypocrisy.

Since you are in agreement with enforcing the penalty for breaking the sabbath my question is "have you ever broken the sabbath?". Please use G-d's standard here and don't forget all the laws including Jubilee.

People who break G-d's Law deserve death and Prowler is no exception here. Prowler agrees with the Law's penalty for sin... but Prowler who was condemned to death found mercy and abundant grace in Yeshua which he now wants to extend to all those who acknowledge falling short of the L-rd's command!

Mat 9:13 NIV But go and learn what this means: `I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ [Hosea 6:6] For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.

Only when one truly attempts to keep the commandments do we discover our uncleanness. It is in this place of humility when one begins to fast and knock for the Messiah... having been there... now Prowler chooses to share the good news to the sinner to turn to the Living G-d through Yeshua the Son of G-d!

Tell me Jew4Judaism why do you think Isra'el suffered such heavy loses when they tried to discipline Benjamin for their immoral acts? Were they without sin?

...even so Yeshua come!

Prowler: If you mean have I ever sinned in a case where the death penalty was applicable - with the Sanhedrin sitting on the Temple Mount, where two kosher witnesses saw me, and I was properly warned - then no, I haven't.  If Elijah the prophet returned today and restored the Sanhedrin, I could obey G-d's command to execute the criminal with zero fear of being called a hypocrite.

Recall also that the Torah, with its command to execute certain offenders, was given to sinners who had already grumbled several times against Moses since G-d sent him to redeem them.  G-d even commanded these sinners to carry out executions on a number of specific occasions, e.g. after the Golden Calf.

Your post also creates another question.  If indeed only sinless people can prosecute criminals, do you then believe that the jails should be emptied and axe-murderers should roam the streets?  Wow, I thought liberals were soft on crime.

The charge of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit stands.  G-d says, "Thou shalt do X."  Prowler says, "It would be a horrible thing to do X."  Translation: "Obeying G-d is a horrible thing.  I know better than G-d."

I didn't ask if you were taken to the Sanhedrin court and judged... I asked if you have sinned and earned yourself the death penalty according to the standard of the Torah. What is the penalty for the sins you have committed?
I know the answer... do you?

Remember a murderer doesn't escape G-d's judgment just because the Sanhedrin didn't know about it; so don't defend yourself on lack of evidence or witnesses here. You must answer this question to yourself for I will not kill you for breaking the Sabbath and rejecting the Messiah.

Deu 30:19 NIV This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live

What about ; Jeremiah;chapter 26?Who was the judge then?, Liberals are soft on crime until it happens to them! That I agree with you on! I believe ;if the man does the crime; he should do the time, or executed! He stills owes man for his crime even if saved. My boy was innocent , and shot 7 times with a 9 mm.;from the feet up until he died, screaming like a baby , being in the wrong place at the wrong time, working on a computer, and the guy got 3 years!,but I do believe in G-d's judgement you cannot escape!, unless forgiven by grace ; truly repentant. Wasn't David?