John 3:16 says that salvation depends on believing in Jesus. Matthew 5 says it depends on forgiving others.
As an Orthodox Jew, I'm willing to believe Jesus contradicted himself - but I don't think he did here. The resolution involves a redefinition of what it means to believe in Jesus.
Everyone on this forum will happily agree that the body is just a shell, and the spirit is what counts. This is no less true of Jesus than of anyone else. So the essence of Jesus is his spirit, and believing in him means following his teachings. His most important teachings are loving your enemies and forgiving those who transgress against you.
These teachings are also found in the Talmud. Therefore, while we Orthodox Jews don't call ourselves by the label "Christian", it would seem that we meet the requirements of John 3:16 and will go to Heaven even from a Christian standpoint.
"... believing in him means following his teachings."
That is some astute thinking in that post! This kind of thinking is what goes through the heads of many sincere Christians. As you point out, Jesus himself seems to give different criteria for receiving eternal life, and it is a refreshing relief to see an Orthodox Jew actually reflect on the possibility that there might be a deeper meaning here instead of quickly calling Jesus contradictory or worse.
I remember when I as a young Christian became concerned that I had just been "believing in Jesus" in some shallow sense. As James 2:19 states, "You believe that God is one? You do well. The demons also believe and tremble." James goes on to explain that true belief will show itself in acts that demonstrate complete trust, such as Rahab acting for the Israelite spies and against the king.
Look at Luke 19:8-9. When Zaccheus gives up his riches to the poor and repayment of fraud, Jesus announces that salvation has come to his house. I see belief here. What motivated Zaccheus to do such a thing if it were not that he had let go of his trust in riches and sought the righteousness of the kingdom of God? That was his motivation. That is faith. He fulfilled John 3:16.
How can you forgive your neighbor who wronged you? By trusting that God is going to make it right. If you have no faith, then how can you forgive an offense, telling your neighbor that it is all right, while thinking that this unfairness is permanent, beyond God's power and willingness to rectify? I don't think you can.
So an Orthodox Jew loves his enemy and forgives those who trespass against him. He does justice and loves mercy and walks humbly with his God. He prays Psalm 51 in complete sincerity. Is he saved? Of course he is saved, just as King David is! And what would happen if this Orthodox Jew met Jesus one day, and Jesus would say, "Son of Abraham, salvation has come to you because you have eaten my flesh and drunk my blood." What would this Orthodox Jew say? He would answer something like, "Lord, you have the words of everlasting life." He wouldn't say that? Oh, then this Orthodox Jew is not doing justice, loving mercy, and walking humbly with his God, just fooling himself.
John 3:16 says that salvation depends on believing in Jesus. Matthew 5 says it depends on forgiving others.
As an Orthodox Jew, I'm willing to believe Jesus contradicted himself - but I don't think he did here. The resolution involves a redefinition of what it means to believe in Jesus.
Everyone on this forum will happily agree that the body is just a shell, and the spirit is what counts. This is no less true of Jesus than of anyone else. So the essence of Jesus is his spirit, and believing in him means following his teachings. His most important teachings are loving your enemies and forgiving those who transgress against you.
These teachings are also found in the Talmud. Therefore, while we Orthodox Jews don't call ourselves by the label "Christian", it would seem that we meet the requirements of John 3:16 and will go to Heaven even from a Christian standpoint.
following jesus commands is Good but salvation is base on accpeting what Jesus said who He was the Lord messiah savior.
Also where does matthew 5 mention salvation is base on forgiving? i read that chapter and dont find that
These teachings are also found in the Talmud. Therefore, while we Orthodox Jews don't call ourselves by the label "Christian", it would seem that we meet the requirements of John 3:16 and will go to Heaven even from a Christian standpoint.
Interesting thought.....but I am not much concerned with whether
or not Christians think I am "saved" and will go to heaven.
Unless of course them agreeing with you would reduce to missionary
attempts against the Jewish people
Jew4Judaism
So the essence of Jesus is his spirit, and believing in him means following his teachings. His most important teachings are loving your enemies and forgiving those who transgress against you.
Well the whole story sounds like an interesting point.
But as a Jew I am not willing to believe in anybody's spirit. The Almighty never commanded us to believe in Moses' spirit, or the spirit of King David etc.
No we had allready the Holy spirit, so why an egocentric replacement that a Messiah comes arround and says: ''you have to believe in my spirit etc.''???
So I guess there are some differences. And Talmud also learns that we where commanded by The Almighty to hate Amelek. non-Jews are not commanded to hate Amelek by the same Almighty, so maybe Jesus message is only for non-Jews?
His most important teachings are loving your enemies and forgiving those who transgress against you.
These teachings are also found in the Talmud. Therefore, while we Orthodox Jews don't call ourselves by the label "Christian", it would seem that we meet the requirements of John 3:16 and will go to Heaven even from a Christian standpoint.
Darlin', His most important teaching was that He was Messiah. If you miss that, you've missed it all. I would love to see you in Heaven, but there is no other name given under Heaven whereby you may be saved.
Shalom.
Ro:10:9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Ro:10:10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Ro:10:11: For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Ro:10:12: For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Ro:10:13: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Jesus never said he was "messiah", now did he? He never said he was "G-d". He may have made some implications that some interpret incorrectly. For example, my opinion is that when John the baptist ask "Are you "he" or should we look for another." Jesus didn't answer yes or no. He said, the blind see, the deaf hear, knowing Duet.'s instructions that even if a prophet come with signs and wonders but instructs you to deny Torah, you are not to believe the prophet. So Jesus was basically saying..."wait and see.". ....
So if jesus was a first century rabbi who followed Torah and instructed his followers to do so, then it is the G-d's gift of Torah that gives us life and makes our "salvation" possible. I think that this is what Jewsforjudaism is saying. If we follow the words of Jesus because theyalign with Torah...with what G-d has said...we are "saved".
Jesus never said he was "messiah", now did he? He never said he was "G-d".
Funny how the people of that day knew for certain that He had claimed to be G-d. They not only knew it, but tried to stone Him for it.
John 10:31-33 [31] Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, [32] but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" [33] "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
Jesus never said he was "messiah", now did he? He never said he was "G-d". He may have made some implications that some interpret incorrectly. For example, my opinion is that when John the baptist ask "Are you "he" or should we look for another." Jesus didn't answer yes or no. He said, the blind see, the deaf hear, knowing Duet.'s instructions that even if a prophet come with signs and wonders but instructs you to deny Torah, you are not to believe the prophet. So Jesus was basically saying..."wait and see.". ....
So if jesus was a first century rabbi who followed Torah and instructed his followers to do so, then it is the G-d's gift of Torah that gives us life and makes our "salvation" possible. I think that this is what Jewsforjudaism is saying. If we follow the words of Jesus because theyalign with Torah...with what G-d has said...we are "saved".
Jesus never said he was the messiah?
how do you explain these verses
John 4 (King James Version)
25The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
26Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
Also you should read The
The Sanhedrin’s Judgement of Jesus Christ in scripture.
Caiaphas Ask is it true? are you The Christ and son of The living God?
jesus answer yes it is but I tell you hereafter you will see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven."
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