JFJ Forums - John, The Immerser

Ben Masada Wrote:

This is proof that even the Pope errs by not knowing the Scriptures.
How did Jesus take the sins with him to be washed away, by dying on the cross? It's written, "Only for his own guilt shall a man be put to death." Read Deuteronomy 24:16; II Kings 14:6; Jeremiah 31:30; Ezekiel 18:4)

An offering for sin.
Tovia wrote:
"Therefore, Isaiah 53:8 concludes with their stunning confession, “for the transgressions of my people [the gentile nations] they [the Jews] were stricken.”  The fact that the servant is spoken of in the third person, plural (wml) illustrates beyond doubt that the servant is a nation rather than a single individual. "
Tovia is saying "the transgressions of my people[the gentile nations]" HA!
Is he saying the gentiles are God's people "my people" are great sinners and the beautiiful righteous Israel was stricken for these sinners! Funny man!
You and Tovia believe it wasn't one person but righteous Israel and than you quote Deut 24:16. So make up your mind as your saying Israel the people than your saying it can't be anyone quoting Deut 24:16. Do you believe Israel's persecution was not because of sin that a righteous holy Israel had to suffer greatly only because gentiles are evil sinners who despise jews! You better read Daniel again!
Zec:7:11: But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.
Zec:7:12: Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the LORD of hosts.
Zec:7:13: Therefore it is come to pass, that as he cried, and they would not hear; so they cried, and I would not hear, saith the LORD of hosts:
Zec:7:14: But I scattered them with a whirlwind among all the nations whom they knew not.  Thus the land was desolate after them, that no man passed through nor returned: for they laid the pleasant land desolate.
You and Tovia call Jesus a false prophet, Jesus said about you:
Joh:15:6: If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Suit Yourselves!

Isa:53:10: Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

M't:20:28: Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Great wrath came to Israel, why?
Psalms:2:12: Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little.

Ben Masada Wrote:

This is proof that even the Pope errs by not knowing the Scriptures.
How did Jesus take the sins with him to be washed away, by dying on the cross? It's written, "Only for his own guilt shall a man be put to death." Read Deuteronomy 24:16; II Kings 14:6; Jeremiah 31:30; Ezekiel 18:4)

So will you go to the mothers , and fathers of the soldiers who died, and blood stains the ground you walk on to defend Israel, and say; They are guilty!Yeshua became Immanuel [G-d with us , son of man, as Moses freed us from the death of paganism; Yeshua freed us from sin and death!, and that G-d would take our sin through a man; IsraellYehoshua;Hayah The Lord G-d, Hayah ; your forgiveness!

Ben Masada Wrote:

John, the Immerser.

Have you ever seen religious Jews at the corners of some streets, inviting others Jewish passers-by do done Tephillin? I mean, Philacteries. Many still do this as an occupation with the purpose to cause other Jews to perform a mitzvah. I mean, a commandment.

That was John's occupation: To immerse Jews in the Jordan River, over and over again everyday. Many Jews used to and still do it daily, others weekly before the Shabbat, others only before a festival, and almost all before a happy event in life, like a wedding, bar-mitzvah, or anything uncommon.

The point is that many Jews would do this as an occupation, but they had their own lives to live. It means that John could very well have been a married man, which would neutralize the Christian claim that John was an Essene, and of those who observed celibacy. These kind of Essenes would live their lives "indoors;" I mean, in their claustro-like style of life. John and Jesus, on the contrary, were men of the outside; mingling with the crowds. Ambulant Teachers or Rabbis.

Now, why Jonh the Immerser and not John the Baptist? I was asked once. Simply because Baptist was never a Jewish term. It had become common with the rise of Christianity. (Mat. 28:19; Acts 19:5) Then, John and Jesus were Jewish. And what John did could never be compared with baptism, because this is something done once for life; and what John did, it could be done even every single day with the same prospects. (Mat.3:7)

Ben

Actually, there were different "sects" among the Essenes.
See: Jewish Encyclopedia

The Essenes in History.
1) The Essenes, as they appear in history, were far from being either philosophers or recluses. They were, says Josephus ("Ant." xv. 10, §§ 4-5), regarded by King Herod as endowed with higher powers, and their principle of avoiding taking an oath was not infringed upon. Herod's favor was due to the fact that Menahem, one of their number who, excelling in virtuous conduct and preaching righteousness, piety, and love for humanity, possessed the divine gift of prophecy, had predicted Herod's rise to royalty.

2) Add to these John the Essene, a general in the time of the Roman war ("B. J." ii. 20, § 4; iii. 2, § 1), and it becomes clear that the Essenes, or at least many of them, were men of intense patriotic sentiment;

3) Of one only, by the name of Banus (probably one of the Banna'im; see below), does Josephus ("Vita," § 2) relate that he led the life of a hermit and ascetic, maintaining by frequent ablutions a high state of holiness;

John the Baptist was prophesied in Isaiah of the voice of him that cries in the wilderness; prepare unto yourselves the way of the lord. Make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Every valley shall be lifted up, and every mountain and hill shall be made low, and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places smooth.

Robert Wrote:

Ben Masada Wrote:

This is proof that even the Pope errs by not knowing the Scriptures.
How did Jesus take the sins with him to be washed away, by dying on the cross? It's written, "Only for his own guilt shall a man be put to death." Read Deuteronomy 24:16; II Kings 14:6; Jeremiah 31:30; Ezekiel 18:4)

So will you go to the mothers , and fathers of the soldiers who died, and blood stains the ground you walk on to defend Israel, and say; They are guilty!Yeshua became Immanuel [G-d with us , son of man, as Moses freed us from the death of paganism; Yeshua freed us from sin and death!, and that G-d would take our sin through a man; IsraellYehoshua;Hayah The Lord G-d, Hayah ; your forgiveness!

Prove to me everything you are saying about Yeshua in the Scriptures he used to handle, because he never saw a page of the NT.

Ben Masada Wrote:

Robert Wrote:

Ben Masada Wrote:

This is proof that even the Pope errs by not knowing the Scriptures.
How did Jesus take the sins with him to be washed away, by dying on the cross? It's written, "Only for his own guilt shall a man be put to death." Read Deuteronomy 24:16; II Kings 14:6; Jeremiah 31:30; Ezekiel 18:4)

So will you go to the mothers , and fathers of the soldiers who died, and blood stains the ground you walk on to defend Israel, and say; They are guilty!Yeshua became Immanuel [G-d with us , son of man, as Moses freed us from the death of paganism; Yeshua freed us from sin and death!, and that G-d would take our sin through a man; IsraellYehoshua;Hayah The Lord G-d, Hayah ; your forgiveness!

Prove to me everything you are saying about Yeshua in the Scriptures he used to handle, because he never saw a page of the NT

Ben, Shalom.

Read your own proof, in red.  The whole NT was written for, and about Him, after He tabernachled with man.  He stated that those who could believe, through Faith, were Blessed.  Those who cannot/willnot, and desire to utilize mortal judgment power, to bless Him as Mashiach, by seeing the wounds, signs, and wonders, may do so, should they survive in mortality, until He returns.  This next time He will return as Israel expected Him to be the first coming, as a great leader, and the Lion of Israel.
May Yashuah come soon enough that many will still be alive to see and believe.  If you had been by my side, through my life, the many times my death was delayed, you would have more than enough proof, but, alas, you weren't beside me.

In Messiah, His Blessing, and Protection.   Arley

PS: He had a second reason for His first visit, but I cannot prove it, as you would have it proven.  Too bad,  Great story.//as//

[quote=Ben Masada]
Prove to me everything you are saying about Yeshua in the Scriptures he used to handle, because he never saw a page of the NT.
[/quote=Robert]You conform His words to the scriptures by your own words[Isaiah6:9,10]

Robert Wrote:

John the Baptist was prophesied in Isaiah of the voice of him that cries in the wilderness; prepare unto yourselves the way of the lord. Make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Every valley shall be lifted up, and every mountain and hill shall be made low, and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places smooth.

No, he was not. That reference in Isaiah is to the Divine Herald announcing the end of the Babylonian exile with the return of the Jewish People from the East through the desert.

Ben Masada Wrote:

Prove to me everything you are saying about Yeshua in the Scriptures he used to handle, because he never saw a page of the NT.

I'll will prove to you that question when you prove to me everything Moses used to handle in the Torah! He never saw a page either! Or did He?Are you saying G-d is dead?, and the men who believed His Word perished?, and thier is no afterlife?, no promise, no Covenant? I think not!We can't even prove we wrote the posts we are discussing now. I guess that is why we need faith? ; believing and knowing truth , but yet we cannot prove it to other men!Only G-d, Shalom