JFJ Forums

For those who do not believe in Yeshua, I invite your responses:

In the Dead Sea Scrolls, there is a call for the righteous to:
"...(leave) from the dwelling-place of the men of perversion,
in order that*you*may* go to the Wilderness to prepare the Way for Him, as it is written,
      'In the Wilderness, prepare the Way of HASHEM,
       make straight in the Desert a MESILAH for our G-D.'
THIS IS THE SEARCH OF THE LAW."    (Manual of Discipline 8:13-15)

One of the things left out of our apologia (defense) of Jesus, is how that Jesus not only tore down the wall of partition between Jew and Gentile, but he also tore down the wall of the material world's caste system.  In the Torah (Shemos / Exodus 22:28) and in the Dead Sea Scrolls (Manual of Discipline 6:11-12), there is a caste system within pre-Christian Israel in which a man of the Assembly is allowed to speak up only when a leader allows him to do so.  

So if a sin is committed by a leader, he is only to be rebuked by one of the same or higher level.  If a Judge shall be openly perverse, and accepts an open bribe to influence his verdict before the people, only one of equal or higher standing could rebuke such a one...you were not legally allowed to curse.  One who did, was like Hamas - "a violent robber" who regards not Torah or its Great Author [i.e., G-D].

Jesus was never rebuked for slamming the Sanhedrin leaders of Israel.
This was never an issue with the Sanhedrin or in the ensuing generations.  Why is that?  Why?  Unless there was no doubt to His authencity and legal right to Primogeniture and Entail to the entire nation of Judah -- and yes, even Israel itself.  In other words, they KNEW Him to be the top-most son of David in succession to the Throne.

There was NEVER a question of Jesus' Davidic lineage in the worst of Jesus enemies.  There was purposeful slander by knowing malicious insinuation in using Beelzebub.  The Great Sanhedrin and their followers would have had the power, the means, the motivation, to thoroughly investigate the genealogical records in the Book of Days:  family member by family member, neighbor by neighbor, as to whether Jesus could legally be an heir to David or not.  In their minds, Jesus fully qualified as an heir of David, virgin born or not, because He qualified doubly under the weight of the legal citations within Bamidbar/Numbers chapter 36.

So when we see the exchanges such as in Matthew 12:24-32, Jesus is telling the Pharisees that they are in violation of the Torah in cursing Him (Yeshua), because these are of a lower caste.  In Matthew 12:27, Jesus severely rebukes these for violating the Torah, and accuses them of practicing "lawlessness" for teaching to curse one of a higher caste than themselves.  The text also shows Jesus very subtle but repeated affirmation of being fully of Jewish/Davidic stock in his human lineage.  

So when a Jew today seeks to keep the Law, but curses Jesus, He is violating Torah.  Let them remove themselves to the desert and study Torah alone there, and build the exalted embankment of HASHEM straight, a life in Tzedek/tzedekah, even as Saul who became Paul had done for 3 years.  For the exalted embankment and WAY of the SALVATION / YESHUA of the G-D of Israel is truly "the search of the law" -- as Manual of Discipline 8:13-15 infers.  Shalom.

The Community who wrote the texts of the Dead Sea Scrolls appeared to have among them, those who combined the notion that HASHEM and Messhiach were one and the same person...especially when citing Isaiah, and gathering texts about Messhiach.  

Has anyone else read or heard these things, attended a lecture by Michael Wise, or followed the debates with the Biblical Archaeology Society?

When Nicodemus came to Jesus by night, he came as:
1) one of the 7 elders the Sanhedrin
2) the chief rabbi of eretz Israel outside Jerusalem
3) most probably as a leader of the majority party of Saduccees within the Sanhedrin
4) as a representative "judge" of the Galileean regions, who might discreetly judge Jesus to see if or not the words of his malefic opponents had merit, so as to justify bringing Jesus to judgement of at least a Bet Din.  (But he found no just cause).

In fact, Nicodemus had come to realize internally that Jesus / Yeshua was most likely the promised Messiah.  He removed himself out of the equation as much as possible, perhaps thinking that being unopposed would be an act of faith.  That is, by deeds of not hindering, faith is demonstrated.  

But in our own day, we have the saying...that in order for evil to triumph, all that is required, is for good men to do nothing.

That is as true in the workplace as it is in Synagogue or Church.  And sometimes, even when we act, evil still appears to win the day.  But Jesus did say that many are called, but few chosen.  Many will die in sins and be damned, but few redeemed.  

Who is the final Judge at the end?  To whom has that authority been entrusted?  To men or G-D?  

The rank that Yeshua holds is far beyond what even Isaiah 9 can ascribed, or a title such as L-RD of Hosts can ever convey.  It is incomprehensible, even with the verses of insight as John 1:1-3.  Had it been comprehensible, in a completed sense, there would be no need for discussion.  

Thus, the title "pala", meaning "wonderful", "mind-blowingly beyond comprehension", clearly applies to Yeshua / Jesus as well as just one more "proof" of how awesome Messhiach really is...and how like the Torah was at Sinai...awesome...as near as the very breath out of one's nose and mouth...so is Yeshua.    Shalom.

Yeshua...Yod - Shin - Vav - Ayin

Yod - The abbreviative of the Holy NAME for G-D  (YHVeH)
Shin - The phoenetic is related to the root word shnh, which is in turn related to shani (scarlet...appearing 42 times in the Tanach). Shnh is the more correct Gematriac translation than the next "traditional" option.   Shin is secondly, also related to shen (ivory tooth, sharp), a derivative of the root word shanan.
Vav -  A hook (as those silver and gold hooks upon which the Temple curtains of Exodus chapters 26, 27, 36, and 38 hang, for example). It can even be used to describe a peg (or nail) shape as those 3 found in Jesus at the Cross.
Ayin - artesian well spring flowing/living waters.  It is also translated as that source of that which is seen with the eye. From the Ugaritic "yn" - 'to behold'.  Often, lost in translation is the singular word 'eye', which also fails to convey the inward expression.  In Jeremiah 5:21, for example, the Hebrew links the "eyes" to expression and inclinations of "the heart".

Thus, Yeshua is YHVeH's Crimson Hook which flows like a stream of living waters...in other words, the very name Yeshua, prophesied in the Tanach...speaks of the coming Cross and of G-D shedding his eternal blood upon it.  

He upon whom the Universe hangs and is upheld by, is prophesied to hang upon the Cross...and in turn, become both the atonement and the sanctuary of all who trust into Him.

My sister has Hebrew roots according to the torah, and I am responding
in proxy for her........Jesus took her cross. (A man found to be in the image of God). Dead sea scrolls imply that women were part of the qumran community and Jesuit priests formulated some of this disparaging
question as to the authenticity of THAT cross.  The central issue of this post seems to be far from Why I don't believe.

   <(((((((<

Cor517,

There are 5 Scrolls to the Torah - Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy.  External Instruction.


There are 5 Scrolls to the Psalms - 1-41, 42-72, 73-89, 90-106, 107-150.  Internal Instruction.  

Both Point to Yeshua, the Search of the Instruction.

You can start by pointing out Yeshua through the Psalms, and work your way back into the Torah in your witnessing and studies.  

What 3 things must be fulfilled in order for a convert to be accepted as a Jew?

1) in the case of a male, he must undergo a  proper circumcision

2) he must fully immerse in a Mikvah / essentially be baptized

3) he must accept live in accordance with Jewish law and be subject to approval from a Beit Din (a three judge and qualified rabbinical court).

In the case of Jesus, he was ordained as a rabbi...even being publicly recognized repeatedly as ordained as "Jewish", being called rabbi by his rabbinical, priestly, and scribal enemies.

In the case of Jesus, he was recognized as a legitimate heir to the Throne of David, even inferred as being nearest in line to kingship by his enemies in rabbinic commentary.

In the case of Jesus, He was -- and IS, and ever shall be -- the search of the Law, and of the search and fulfillment of  the identity to whom the rod belongs and to whom the people shall gather to (Genesis  49:10).  For Jacob himself calls that Shiloh as Yeshua just 8 verses later, and ties his name, Salvation / Yeshua / Jesus, as the means of the deliveranceof the progeny of Jacob.

And to clinch this, only Yeshua offered up and poured out his Soul (as Isaiah 53 intimates) as a fulfillment of a burnt offering or sacrifice as the division of Shiloh tells us (Shay - Lah meaning a burnt gift offering). For the life or SOUL of the flesh is where?  In the Blood, and Christ shed His Blood, and poured out His soul as if a burnt offering for us.  Amen.

Search my heart Eh, Brianroy?

When we deal with the concept of G-D, how do we view G-D?  

For Christians, it may go with John 4:24

"G-D  is Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth."

So how do YOU worship?  Is it with your flesh, or some other deeper aspect of you that comes forth out of the house of flesh called 'your body'?

If we say that man is a carnal or even an animal entity, what is it that gives life and what is it that separates man from the animals?  

In Leviticus we read how that the "soul of the flesh is the blood", and often translate: "the life of the flesh is the blood".  But Yeshua says G-D is Spirit, and worship must be done by man to G-D from his inner being, from his spirit to G-D...or it appears as though words to this effect.

So if man is a "spiritual being" housed in flesh, and G-D is Spirit, how is it so hard to fathom that G-D, who is Spirit,  might wish to visit among the spirits of men as also being clothed in their own familiar flesh as well?  Especially when we are blind from seeing the spiritual realms through the eyes of flesh?

If man cannot behold G-D in an unveiled form without perishing, and G-D really loves those spirits of mankind inside those bodies of humanity, not wanting any spirit of man to perish...when is humanity going to get off their narcissistic love of the flesh mentality and at least TRY understand the whole point of His Coming th "save"  from G-D's point of view?  

To save the body is temporary...but to save your spirit, and rekindle its dead pilot and make it a living flame, eternally alive  unto G-D (the all consuming fire)...then that, at least, makes sense and deserves to be pondered upon.

Hence, even with intelligent reason, we see that even the concept of Yeshua and His ministry, is the search of the Law, and of humanity's highest ideal of "wisdom."  

In 1 Samuel 16:7, we read:
"...for the L-RD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the L-RD looketh on the heart."

Here, the Scriptures tells us that G-D looks on the inward, past the outward form that we discern, and is concerned with the inward form housed in our physical bodies (cf. I Chronicles 28:9).

In the Genesis !;1 thread, in post 2, I point out the association at the beginning between the physical and spiritual in the existence of water:

http://forums.jewsforjesus.org/showthread.php?tid=1221

Water is a "sign" to us. If the life or soul of the flesh is in the blood, then it also benefits us to know that water is that which gives blood the means to function and exist.  Without water, there can be no physical life.  Water is also a spiritual by-product of the innermost being of HASHEM Messhiach.

Our lives are to be ordered in such a way, that even as we know we need daily to drink and have physical water within us to live physically...so also do we need the water of G-D's presence in us spiritually.  That life-source, that soul of living life, that water of life for humanity and all of Creation is -- as seen through Jeremiah 2:13, 17:13 and Psalm 36:9 --  HASHEM Messhiach, Light from Light and the source of "living waters".  He it is, who created our physical lives, and is the one who gave Adam a sliver of his own spirit within him,  by the command and instruction of G-D the Father -- as even hints are left us in the Tanakh in this  understanding (Psalm 36:9, Psalm 2:2 and 7, Lamentations 4:20, Genesis 2:7, Psalm 148:5, Genesis 1:26).

Hence, when immature Adam's living spirit was snuffed out, as if murdered by Satan...HASHEM would become Yeshua for them, as a mature second Adam bringing redemption for the immature first Adam and his descendants.  This makes Yeshua, the search of the torah..the search of the Law.