The narrative voice of the Gospel according John (Kata Yochanon) says in John 5:18:
"For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God." (NIV).
If the narrative voice declares that he broke the Shabbat, one mandatory reply is that it is rehashing the charges against Yeshua, not making a positive declaration of fact. (See the word "not only" to explain the rationale for wanting the Lord dead).
However, the next phrase makes this sticky, "making himself equal with God." Since Yochanon's Gospel emphatically states that Yeshua IS equal with God (v1:1), should we accept the charges at face value?
Is this related to the claim that the commandment to keep the Shabbat is the only one of the 10 Mitzvot not repeated in the New Testament? Rather, Yeshua simply declares that He is the "Lord of the Shabbat" and dares anybody to charge him.
Is Yeshua claiming his rights (as the author of the Torah) being exempt from being judged by those He put under it?
NO! He broke the man made rules of the Sabbath. He was saying I am the one who gave you these rules (the word of God) and know what is to be done/not done on the Sabbath. He never broke the Sabbath according to the Fathers commandment and never taught to do so. Even today Jews have man made laws reguarding Sabbath (can't tie knot, can't walk so far, put certain shoe on first, etc. rediculous stuff). He was saying who he was. Clarifying who he was...he was making a show of the principalities and powers (Pharisees/man made rules..as we have today in Christianity...SUNday worship,etc) and triumphing over them to show who he was and get people right with God. Problem was people believed so strongly in the man made commandments/rules that they killed him over it...same problem with many people today! He never broke the Sabbath but they believed he did because they held the man made laws equal with God's laws!
Yeshuaislord wrote:
"For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God." (NIV).
It's a weird text! First of all, we Jews are all children of God (Bnei Elokim) and we have prayers that The Almighty is our Father... for that we don't declare ourselves equal to Him. So why this unlogical sentence-structure or weird conclusion in NT I question myself.
If the narrative voice declares that he broke the Shabbat, one mandatory reply is that it is rehashing the charges against Yeshua, not making a positive declaration of fact. (See the word "not only" to explain the rationale for wanting the Lord dead).
No, for breaking the Sabbath is not that bad, you still stay Jewish etc. But Calling yourself God is from a different level.
And where in John 1:1 is stated that Jesus is God? Because if vers 17 claims that Mercy and Truth came through Jesus, than that was there even before Moses. And was the Law not given by God? How strange to say that the Law was given by Moses... BUT THEN, in vers 18 it says the son and father are 2 different entities... confusing though, because how can somebody be in the bosom of the Father, while he is the father himself, and He was declaring the Father while he was Him Himself???.
Krisi
Problem was people believed so strongly in the man made commandments/rules that they killed him over it...
What rule do you mean here? According to your opinion, why did we kill him, according to what Law? Read for example the Encyclopedia Judaica about it, where do you find any Law that we should have killed him? And did we kill him? Where it not the all kind off people who asked for it, and the Romans judging and killing Jesus, for they didn't want another King, and especially not a Jewish one, for because of that they took Herod as a King over Judah?[b]
I'm not 100% certain who killed him....BUT I do know that Gods own chosen people were responsible for many if not all of the prophets deaths...and what law made them kill them? What law makes them do the things they do today that aren't scripture? Man made laws so why would you think a man or men couldn't mandate his death as they did other prophets?
Yetzirah,
There are seven places in the New Testament where the Greek word for God ("theos", Strongs #G2316) is translated as an adjective rather than a noun in the King James Version:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/tr...=KJV&csr=9
This means that one could render John 1:1-2 according to strict monotheism:
In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God, and godly was the Word. The same was in the beginning with God.
The "adjective theory" would also explain the phrases "the word was with God" and "the same was in the beginning with God" literally surround the phrase "godly was the Word" -- so it would be obvious it was meant as an adjective rather than a noun, as in the seven places in the KJV where "theos" is rendered as an adjective or adverb instead of a noun.
The group called Jehovah's Witnesses translate this as a noun with an indefinite article, which no credible scholar, secular or Christian, seriously will support on record.
A noun with an indefinite article is NOT an adjective, any more than "an orange" means the same thing as being orange in color.
I'm not trying to deny the diety of Messiah -- just pointing a logical possibility for the sake of discussion.
John is expressing the viewpoints of the Priests, as to what laws Yashuah was breaking, not that He was breaking any.
Just a thought.
In Messiah. Arley
The sabbath has yet to be fulfilled completely. 1,000 years is a day to the Lord. We are currently in the 6th day (late in the 6th day)... If you count from Adams time he lived almost a full day (930 years),(0-1000 is day 1, etc) etc you can see where we are currently. I read somewhere that the rabbis used to teach that just as God made the SUN in the 4th day so would the Sun of man/messiah come. Which he did come late in 3,000 almost 4th day. Jesus spent 2 days with the Gentiles (Samaritans). It is said that when the Gentiles time is complete israels eyes will be opened. We are late in the 6th day...time for israels eyes to open soon which is happening daily on individual basis for many. Jesus rose on the 3rd day....which means he will also come back on the 7th day (from 4th day). When he comes back on 7th day this will be our rest for the 1,000 year (day) reign!
NO! He broke the man made rules of the Sabbath. He was saying I am the one who gave you these rules (the word of God) and know what is to be done/not done on the Sabbath. He never broke the Sabbath according to the Fathers commandment and never taught to do so.
Yeah, I totally agree with this post. Additionally, we have to look at what He did when He was charged with breaking the Sabbath. He was relieving suffering and in Luke 13:10-17 said they themselves would do the same for an animal, and He appealed to the Abrahamic Covenant as superior to their interpretation of the Law of Moses. You see Him emphasizing this throughout His ministry that the Abrahamic Covenant with a blessed seed that was blessed to be a blessing to all of the Goyim isn't set aside by the Sovereign Laws of a Sovereign Nation as would be the case in considering what the Torah is. This is the same argument that Ravi Shaul makes in Galatians chapters 3 and 4. The Torah and it's interpretations by the Rabbis were a religious matter, whereas Roman law wasn't always a religious matter. So, you've got Peter in Acts essentially telling them where they can stick their rules if it's going to get in the way of someone's healing, while we've got Paul in Romans emphasizing a bit of tact and diplomacy being emphasized by Christians towards Roman authorities in Romans 13.
No contradiction whatsoever when we see Paul essentially behaving the same way as Peter in Acts regarding Jewish religious laws. Judgment was beginning in the house of God at that time, and the Romans weren't in the same immediate dangers as the Jews were with the impending 70AD crisis that Paul, Peter, Jude, and John speak of repeatedly in their epistles. We see the same behaviour among the Puritans in America where they were peace loving people, but when Great Britain decided that the formation of Bible societies and evangelism of the Native Americans, religious liberties, and other fundamental Biblical rights were in jeopardy, then they revolted in favor of G-d rather than of man, and the motto of the American Revolution was "No King but King Jesus." Times of judgment and times of peace are the just balance on interpreting all of these Scriptures to see what G-d is doing and emphasizing with particular nations that He put where He put for the express purpose of their seeking Him, according to Acts 17. G-d has called us to peace thru the Blood of His Cross, according to Colossians 1:20.
YeshuaisLord
Thanks for your reply, I have to think about that.
Sounds good, never heard of that idea that the word was godly.
At one hand it sounds logicall for the holy spirit is also not The Almighty himself, but godly etc.
great.