JFJ Forums

And Jesus

Oy!... Oy!...Oh, no!   You would do better -- while using only the Tenach -- to list the differences / commonalities between YHVeH, YHVeH Messhiach, and Adonai.  Then from that list, place against Elohim his commonalities / differences with this list.  
Then...look at Jesus and what origins and prophecies He is claimed to have related to Him, and compare with the data you've thoroughly summed up.  If you don't want to call Him Jesus, simply call on Him as Yeshua.  The list will force a decision that you should call Him Messhiach, The Son of David, The Lord of David, Adonai/Adonee, HASHEM, YHVeH, LORD, and GOD.  Shalom.

OK...Anyone want to make a clear post?

There are no differences.  They are the same.



I have read most of your posts; you appear to have come here to play.  Quite simply, I find such an approach more tedious than anything.  An honest willingness to discuss is engaging and worth presenting the truth of the holy scriptures to.  You are in danger of putting yourself in the position of the swine Jesus referred to in His admonition about that.

If you truly believed Hashem, you would treat this subject with reverence.

In addition ...



Samson18, I question whether you are truly an orthodox Jew as you initially claimed in your first post.

The OT is replete with statements by both God and God-inspired men that man is a sinner.

For this alone your posts here cannot be taken seriously.  That you do not believe Jesus/the NT is not the first thing to address.

Like I said, you are obviously here to play.  You are tedious.  And there are many others like you coming to sites like this, which is why I do not find you different.  The others here who have trusted Jesus have poured all manner of richness on you and like a sow you prefer the wallow.

I say again, you are not interested in Hashem of the OT; you choose to go your own way, like Isaiah's sheep.  The true believers in Y'shua/Jesus here, true sons and daughters of Abraham, whether Jew or gentile, are not going to and cannot be moved by the transparent error you display in your funmaking.

I hope that you will come to see that, and join in a genuine discussion eventually.

That's the whole point. There is no difference... at all. They both say the same things. They both are true.

Shalom!

God says in Deuteronomy 15:7-11 (NRSV):
"If there is among you anyone in need, a member of your community in any of your towns within the land that the Lord your God is giving you, do not be hard-hearted or tight-fisted toward your needy neighbor.  You should rather open your hand, willingly lending enough to meet the need, whatever it may be.  Be careful that you do not entertain a mean thought, thinking 'The seventh year, the year of remission is near,' and therefore view your needy neighbor with hostility and give nothing; your neighbor might cry to the Lord against you, and you would incur guilt.  Give liberally and be ungrudging when you do so, for on this account the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in all that you undertake.  Since there will never cease to be some in need on the earth, I therefore command you, 'Open your hand to the poor and needy neighbor in your land.'"

Jesus teaches in Matthew 25:1-12 (NRSV):
"Then the kingdom of heaven will be like this.  Ten bridesmaids took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom.  Five of them were foolish, and five were wise.  When the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them; but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps.  As the bridegroom was delayed, all of them became drowsy and slept.  But at midnight there was a shout, 'Look!  Here is the bridegroom!  Come out to meet him.'  Then all those bridesmaids got up and trimmed their lamps.  The foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.'  But the wise replied, 'No! there will not be enough for you and for us; you had better go to the dealers and buy some for yourselves.'  And while they went to buy it, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went with him into the wedding banquet; and the door was shut.  Later the other bridesmaids came also, saying, 'Lord, lord, open to us.'  But he replied, 'Truly I tell you, I do not know you.'"

Remembering the miracle of Chanukah when a little oil in the lamps of the righteous was enough for the pressing need (as well as the New Testament miracle of the loaves and the fishes where very little in the hands of the disciples was more than enough for all who were in need and were waiting for Jesus), why wouldn't the wise virgins lend oil to their sisters in Christ? -- especially since the consequences to the girls who ran out of oil was, in this parable, NOT BEING ADMITTED TO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.

Again, here's what God said in Deuteronomy: "You should rather open your hand, willingly lending enough to meet the need, whatever it may be."

I am not asking why Jesus didn't let the foolish girls in -- I am asking why the wise girls didn't have compassion on the foolish girls, and why they didn't lend them what was in their hand?

God has said in Proverbs 3:27 & 28 (NRSV):
"Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, when it is in your power to do it.  Do not say to your neighbor, 'Go, and come again, tomorrow I will give it' -- when you have it with you."

How can a believer in Yeshua lend "oil" or faith to "a Jew for rabbinical Judaism without Jesus" who wants to enter Heaven, while she or he watches their "Yeshua believing" brethren enter?  Especially if they have an already predetermined and rabbinically indoctrinated bias toward the wise who believe into Yeshua?

Perhaps they say, "lend us your oil" in the New Revised Standard Version: but "dote" in the Greek actually is the aorist imperative active of "dodomi".  This means that these girls aren't asking, they are demanding so as to ROB the ones who do possess the oil. It is as if a threat of violence is made against the wise virgins, and the wise virgins are able to literally fend the foolish girls off.

If you wish to read further into the New Testament, into Acts, you will see that the Christians indeed fulfill your passage out of Deuteronomy 15:7-11.   Keep reading the N.T., and reserve judgement until you've thoroughly read, perhaps even again and again.  Thanks.

And he said to them, "To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside, everything comes in parables; in order that 'they may indeed look, but not perceive, and may indeed listen, but not understand; so that they may not turn again and be forgiven.'" -- Mark 4:11-12 NRSV

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Say to them, As I live, says the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from their ways and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways; for why will you die, O house of Israel?  -- Ezekiel 33:11 NRSV

Obviously another difference between the Old Testament God and Jesus.