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If Jesus was god, or divine, as Messianic’s believe, isn't the game rigged?

What I mean by that is that it was impossible for him to lose. What was the point of it all?

Can you see my difficulties?

Avraham

I suppose you mean, what was the point of Jesus going through the crucifixion?  If you think that since God will not lose, what is the point of any of the other things God has done, including raising up Israel?  I understand the point of it all to be that God loves the plan He is carrying out.  The fact that He will win in the end doesn't reduce his joy.  It about love, not playing a game to see if you will win.  Perhaps your difficulty is that you are interpreting God in your image of how you view life and its challenges.  Think instead of courting a wonderful woman you want to be with forever.  Would an assurance that you are going to succeed in that courtship cause you to quit in disgust and say, what is the point?  I am going to succeed now matter what?  Instead, wouldn't it cause you to go forward with your courtship with more eagerness?

He didn't lose, He obeyed His Father. THe ones who lost were the one who rejected His Father.
The point of it all was to show everyone that even in Great Love some people still hate and do evil.

Hello,
I do not believe that you read my email correctly. I said, "he could not lose".

best regards,
Avraham

Hello Thomas,
"Perhaps your difficulty is that you are interpreting God in your image of how you view life and its challenges."

That's an interesting reply for two reassons. The first one is that we are created in his image. The second of course is that we all use anthropormorhpisms when speaking of G-d. As does the Bible. It's unavoidable. Your reply below is an example of what you mentioned that I did. "God in your image of how you view life and its challenges."



  "Think instead of courting a wonderful woman you want to be with forever.  Would an assurance that you are going to succeed in that courtship cause you to quit in disgust and say, what is the point?  I am going to succeed now matter what?  Instead, wouldn't it cause you to go forward with your courtship with more eagerness?
[/quote]"

Let's put it this way instead. You have G-d in heaven acting like G.I. Joe playing with his action figures in heaven. One day he behaves one way and then the next another.

Is that a G-d one can trust?

regards,

Avaram

We are made in G-d's image.  However, that does not mean that our mental image of who G-d is or what He is like is accurate.  My illustration of G-d being like a man courting a woman is not my invention, but is the way the prophets of the Bible speak of G-d, both in the Tanach and the New Testament.

You express your view of G-d as follows: "Let's put it this way instead. You have G-d in heaven acting like G.I. Joe playing with his action figures in heaven. One day he behaves one way and then the next another.

Is that a G-d one can trust?"

My reply is: That is not the G-d I know through the Bible.  It might be good if you would explain why you think G-d is like that.

“We are made in G-d's image.  However, that does not mean that our mental image of who G-d is or what He is like is accurate.”

Fair enough, but you believe that he became a man and therefore an image does exist. In fact I have always wondered that if the pictures of Jesus were of a short fat black guy with dreadlocks’, would Christians still believe in him? Most illustrations depict him as a handsome white man. That is certainly contrary to what the Torah says about G-d.

“My illustration of G-d being like a man courting a woman is not my invention, but is the way the prophets of the Bible speak of G-d, both in the Tanach and the New Testament.”

You did not use quotations so I assumed that that they were your words. In the future it might be helpful to use quotations and or textual references.

“You express your view of G-d as follows: "Let's put it this way instead. You have G-d in heaven acting like G.I. Joe playing with his action figures in heaven. One day he behaves one way and then the next another.

Is that a G-d one can trust?"

My reply is: That is not the G-d I know through the Bible.  It might be good if you would explain why you think G-d is like that.”

First, it is not my view. I base that on both Christian theology and Messianic views of Jews.
Christians’ tell us that we need to be saved. Messianic have a little different way of saying the same thing. We are not complete Jews without Jesus.
What you both seem to be implying is that G-d gave us the Torah at Sinai, told us to keep it, said he would punish us if we didn’t and did. And that now you claim he was just kidding, we need to do something else also.

That is a very Pagan view of G-d, A capricious G-d that changes the rules on a whim. That is a god that cannot be trusted. That was my point. You depict him as a G.I. Joe playing with his action figures in heaven and making it up as he goes along. I hope that is clearer?

Our G-d, the One G-d of Israel, made us a promise and he has kept it. That’s why we are still here and that’s why we know we can trust him.

Look out your window Thomas. Are these the Messianic times that he promised us? I would be disappointed.

Best regards,

Avraham

Avraham are you suggesting G-d is not the G-d of Scripture, i.e. he is not supreme, sovereign, etc like the G-d of Harold Kushner?  Despite what open theists and some Arminians teach, the G-d of Scripture does not take chances, gambles, wish, etc.  That is the G-d of pagan mythology.  The Scriptures say G-d is sovereign over all and that all things are according to a (admittedly often mysterious to us) plan for his glory.  I think sometimes we want to magnify the autonomy and importance of man at the expense of man and/or make G-d like us - in our image (idolatry).  But all of creation is to G-d's glory, not ours.  Right?

Blessings in Messiah!

Thank you TD,
thats a beautiful testimony but I do not see how it relates to the discussion although I could be mistaken.

best regards,

Avraham

It is not a 'rigged game'.  

God the Father, as it says in scripture, did what He did in making a way out for us from our sinful condition that is oft quoted in John 3:16 because he 'so loved the world'.  He did not do it for Himself to either 'win' or 'lose'.  God

Secondly, the Bible states clearly that the wages of sin is death.  In the O.T. animal sacrifices were needed to cover sin, but only did so partially and temporarily.  That is why in the N.T. it is written that the law was as a schoolmaster to show man his truly sinful nature which is unto death and that he cannot keep the whole law always.  He needs a mediator with a perfect sacrifice.  

Thirdly if it were indeed 'rigged', then why was Jesus tempted in the wilderness?  Also, Jesus did not commit sin even though he suffered terribly on the cross.  Jesus was tried and came through victoriously.  The Bible says of Jesus that (paraphrasing) through suffering Jesus knew the human condition and understood perfectly our lot.  He is therefore the perfect mediator for us.  Also, through this test he was glorified thereafter and seated at the right hand of God.  Every knee will bend to Jesus.  He defeated sin and death at the cross.  It has nothing to do with a 'game' of any sorts.  Mankind is sinful and God made a way out for us.