Have you ever wondered when you read in Romans 9:18; Therefore has He mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He hardens!, and in Exodus 4:21 in which G-d hardened Pharoahs heart,and in the New Testament it speaks of Judas, and Pilate,and even Peter denying Yeshua, because G-d chose His will upon them to fulfill His work, and in Jeremiah 18:6,he speaks of Israel as the clay in the Potters hand to mold it as G-d may! I always wondered , as many do ,about predestination. Are we predestined for good or evil? Does man have a choice to decide his fate,it is spoken many times G-d requires us, and grace is for all who accept it[ John 1:12], [ Deutronomy 18:19] or are we as these other scriptures say; pre-chosen before time whether we will be selected of G-d or not? Were we not created in G-d's Image; to decide whether we will accept G-d , or reject Him, and to think, and reason independently,and be tempered so we may understand our feelings from our ;failure, and success? Isn't that why we have sufferred throughout mankinds existence, that we would have a choice? It is a perplexing question, and I think the Lord has answered my question!, but I will give you a chance to comment before I post, unless you don't, as you have a choice!; or do you? We absolutely know G-d interjects His Sovereignty to bring about His Will, but what of the men like Pharoah, and Judas,Cyrus, and the men and kings G-d annointed for dishonor, and the ones for Honor, and the ones He chose for mercy? Does everyone really have a choice to accept G-d ?, or are some men like darkness; created into the void without light, and some ; born in the Light to be righteouss? There are many questions to understand the scriptures so they do not contradict themselves.[ continued]
[/quote= Robert] It's amazing how, on the thread I just came from on J4J, we were discusing how it would be nice for our children to live in a protected bubble like the Jewish faith does with thier children,ands sets them aside from secluarism of the system. That is the common denominator the Holy Spirits brings to this discussion, because of the fact the Jews are required to step out of that protective bubble [ Deuteronomy 18:19],to accept the Mashiach as we must step out now, from our comfort zone ,and face the mistakes that will us lead to victory in Yehoshua. I had a problem when I first posted multiple posts to long at once on this thread ,and were jumbled and deleted , but through grace, and mistakes, and learning from those mistakes we grow. This is where I started with Judaism. I was kicked , and proded, and put into answering Hebrew scripture written in Hebrew! [Talk about no comfort zone]. but I chose to hold on , and in that act of electiveness; G-d gave to me an active interjection to answer and find those truths, and it changed my life once again.[continued]
It;s like building a fire, ; We must cut , and sweat, and feel cold as well,and struggle before we can bring the wood in and place the wood, and strike the match , and nurture the small flame upon kindling into a fire that will warm us! Then do we feel the warmth, after the fire is prepared.and the work is completed .We could choose to stay within the cold confines of the building , or choose to go out , and bring warmth into the home! It comes back to plus and minus; Light and darkness, Darkness can only be measured if Light is present; without light, darkness has no definition, the same with cold; without energy; Heat, etc. at a certain point cold can no longer be measured , because it can only be measured when weighed to heat. The same with good , and evil; Evil can only be measured when weighed againt good, or else it becomes non- existant. Do you see the checks and balances? Positive and negative; black and white. In Art ; White is not considered a color, but yet when energy, or a concave prism is set upon it; light upon white becomes all colors ! Black only changes when other colors and white are set against it.as these letters form against the contrast of this very post we read The same is with scripture. There is a pattern we can follow to understand the undeniable logic [beyond understanding] that allows us to rise into the next level of knowing our Faith in Yehoshua;Like holding the prizm of light on the white surface to understand a deeper meaning of G-d, and Yeshua; the active ultimacy of the Father. It seems as with positive and negative; If we apply our walk to this theory;negative and positive ultimacies;G-d actively interjects himself into man, or man electively chooses G-d, and vice versa; G-d will actively remove Himself from man, or man will electively remove himself from G-d. Do you see the balance of the theme? God does not put evil in men's hearts, as Pharoah, and Judas,or Pilate, or the priests, and princes in the Temple when they called for Jeremiahs death ; Man without God naturally has a ultimate sinful nature. With Peter ;G-d removed Himself at a controlled level, and actively re- annointed Himself within Peter , so His Word became truth! God even used a rooster to actiively make His will known. Are you getting the picture?G-d only removes Himself from man , or interjects Himself in man! , and allows man to do the rest It really is simple, but when explained in words , it becomes complicated! I like the Faith part! It's easier on the fingers, but then can we really have knowledge of faith, without knowing our faith in who Yehoshua,orMashiach,or G-d really are, and those names represent? Do the rules apply of ;Equal Ultimacy as well?[continued]
It;s like building a fire, ; We must cut , and sweat, and feel cold as well,and struggle before we can bring the wood in and place the wood, and strike the match , and nurture the small flame upon kindling into a fire that will warm us! Then do we feel the warmth, after the fire is prepared.and the work is completed .We could choose to stay within the cold confines of the building , or choose to go out , and bring warmth into the home! It comes back to plus and minus; Light and darkness, Darkness can only be measured if Light is present; without light, darkness has no definition, the same with cold; without energy; Heat, etc. at a certain point cold can no longer be measured , because it can only be measured when weighed to heat. The same with good , and evil; Evil can only be measured when weighed againt good, or else it becomes non- existant. Do you see the checks and balances? Positive and negative; black and white. In Art ; White is not considered a color, but yet when energy, or a concave prism is set upon it; light upon white becomes all colors ! Black only changes when other colors and white are set against it.as these letters form against the contrast of this very post we read The same is with scripture. There is a pattern we can follow to understand the undeniable logic [beyond understanding] that allows us to rise into the next level of knowing our Faith in Yehoshua;Like holding the prizm of light on the white surface to understand a deeper meaning of G-d, and His Son; the active ultimacy of the Father. It seems as positive and negative; If we apply our walk to this theory;negative and positive ultimacies;G-d actively interjects himself into man, or man electively chooses G-d, and vice versa; G-d will actively remove Himself from man, or man will electively remove himself from G-d. Do you see the balance of the theme? God does not put evil in men's hearts, as Pharoah, and Judas,or Pilate ,or rhe priests and princes in the Temple that called out for the death of Jeremiah,or Saul, or Ahaz, or many others1; Man without G-d naturally has a ultimate sinful nature. With Peter ;G-d removed Himself at a controlled level, and actively re- annointed Himself within Peter , so His Word became truth! G-d even used a rooster to actiively make His will known. Are you getting the picture?G-d only removes Himself from man , or interjects Himself in man, with His goodness, and allows man to do the rest ! It really is simple, but when explained in words , it becomes complicated! I like the Faith part! It's easier on the fingers, but then can we really have the fulfilment of faith, without knowing our faith in Yehoshua? Do the rules apply of ;Equal Ultimacy?[continued]
G-d does not annoint all men or interject Himself into all men, but He does not interject evil into men ; He only removes Himself ;to sway them to rebellion!, as for the example of Pharoah; G-d by hardening Pharoahs heart, removed Himself from Pharoah ,to allow Pharoah's natural sinfull nature to be freed, to defy the [Word of G-d]that Moses brought , to bring about ; Exodus; G-d's progressive Active interjection, and Active removal of Himself into a balanced number of certain individuals to bring about His Will! Removing Himself is called; Unchecked freedom; The ablsolute power Pharoah felt, without G-d's conviction, became absolute corruption! Men plus Absolute freedom= Evil! G-d sent Moses several times to Pharoah saying ; If you do not hearken to God's Word, you will suffer the consequences! Pharoah with absolute power had no conviction, yet at any time he in his own thinking could have accepted G-d's Word, yet chose absolute corruption! G-d knowing Pharoah's sinful nature knew Pharoah would not, as G-d , despite our free will, knows our sinful nature, and knows our decisions before we make them!! for G-d is Omnipotent!, and Sovereign!
G-d understands all things! G-d interjects , and chooses vessels of honor and mercy as He chooses![ Romans 9:18],and removes Himself from who He also chooses to shape the destiny of His Word! Not all men are actively chosen,and[ In counterweight] G-d does not actively remove Himself from all men ! ; but regardless of our sinful nature ,all men have a free will to choose! It is G-d ;and His Goodness , that steers our course.[ Giving and taking away! To say G-d chooses all races is true[ Romans 9:26], but yet He chose Israel first over all races to be His children, but with Isarael; God chose but a remnant![ Romans 9:6], and gave some Gentiles thier inheritance![ Matthew 21:1-14] Absolute power; What is that? We see an example of absolute power in Hollywood today.Celebrities that have been idolized, and riches beyond belief, and have the world at thier fingertips, and influence men to do whatever they want them to do . We see most of Hollywood into Mystysizm, and witchcraft, Buddism, pornography, universalistic religion [ Like Opera Winfery], Islam, Hinduism, drugs, adultery, alcohol, etc. the list goes on, and on; everything but a few of them have conviction, and are beleivers in Yeshua, and the G-d of Israel!, because they have the world at thier feet; Men + Unchecked freedom + Absolute power = Absolute corruption! But what of that few? Why ; having all those riches, and power! did they accept Yehoshua? Could it be free will?, or pre-destination ? [continued] Does G-d have both annointing, and control over man to fulfil His Will , while still giving man his own free will?[ Created in His Image?] Are both actions co-hesive?, and un contradicting to scripture ? All things are possible with G-d!
What if God just made it possible for man to choose, without removing man's free spirit. God definetly has a Sovereign Nature!I suppose if you were God you would have one too![Haha!]I remember as a child I used to have turtles, and my friend and I would have turtle races. We would set them on the dirt and take a stick and scrape lanes in the dirt, and then set the turtles on the track, then in a tumoltuous, and frenzied stupor, we yelled;On your mark, get set ; GO! Of course the turtles wern't so enthusiastic, and usually did not move. When they did move they didn' have a sense of direction for the game, and would veer off in different directions.We would have to push them back on our desired route , and keep our finger near them to bump them to direct their course.Not many made it to the finish line, but a few times they would, but never did they stay on course unless we put a peices of wood next to them so there was only one path to take. Though we directed thier path, we could only do so when they were walking. Is it possible that God controls man, while at the same time allows man to have a free spirit? Can He direct our path if we choose not to walk? It seems it is a relationship that the Creator is establishing with man; Like a Father, and a child! You can show them the path, but cannot force them to walk it if they are not willing! Usually only by hard knocks ,scrapes, and cuts, and a lot of; I told you so,s , and come to the rescue's, do they eventually heed and listen their Wise Fathers Words! God is so diverse and broad in spectrum that we cannot fully understand His complete presence, so we live by understanding the reality of Him, and accept Faith, knowing He will nudge us in the right direction,and protect us, so we may walk on our own, and unlike a turtle; Man can learn! Only in the final days will God's presence be fully manifested, when he Leads us, and we Walk to Him!
Question; Can we be saved without the annointing power of God ,His Supernatural driving force which leads us to fulfill Gods word?[or can man choose his own desiny?]To answer the question you present, we must reach back to a common denominator, as Gods Word is overwhelmingly rhytmic throughout the entire Bible![ Beyond human comprehension!] , but in man's limited knowledge of Gods Word; the Holy Spirit leads us to the answers. I have always stressed how important the Old Testament is , as it foreshadows concealed ,the New Testament revealed! and presents itself like a flowing mathematical calculation[or like the notes on a music sheet]. Unless you have the whole equation, and or all the musical notes] you cannot equate the answer!, or how the song is played! From the beginning of Mosaic Scripture and Laws[ The 5 books of Moses], even the Noahide Laws;[ Gentile law of Noah] that foreshadows James words in the New testament [ Acts 15:13-29]of the freedom from the tradition of Law,to the Prophets , and Gospel of Christ we see a carefully planned set of balances, weights, and counterweights , and rhytmic notes, and principles that balance the whole Scripture into a delicate masterpiece of the Handwritting of God! [I never tryed to explain that before.] It feels simple anyway! It is like once you feel the rythmn of the music you can dance to the song!, but to make my point;As in the Old Testament; For every measurement of dicipline or exile God gave to Israel, there is always an opposite counterweight of Restoration that follows. I have found this to be true throughout Bible scripture .There is a word that rhymes with your question that explains much; though it is a big word, and I am not very educated; It is called; Equal Ultimacy. [ 2 Corinthians 11:12-15] ![continued]
Yes, I agree. God knows our heart and therefore when he is with us we know it and we know Him; when we are against Him He can still use us for whatever He needs accomplished. I believe America is on a destructive path taking freedoms alittle to far. I defenitaly believe in our freedoms, but when it comes to things against the Bible (homosexuals, abortions, etc) there is a problem. People cry freedom, choice, and equal rights when those rights were ones that were never meant to be our rights! This is where they turn evil and America is turning more and more like Sodom and Gommorah...Gods wrath is not far away! We have to be careful with our freedoms...we have responsibility. If we live according to God's word there would be no problem but as a country we have been slowly drifting away from it. God knows if we seek Him wholeheartly and if we love Him; and He shows Himself to us through His word/His way but if we don't seek Him He lets us fall...because most of the time when people fall that's when they seek God! Many times people have to reach the lowest point in their life when they begin to call on Him...He warned us not to forget Him when we went to other countries, had riches, food, etc...but to remember Him and thank Him for our blessings. America has really been blessed but we have to remember it's through God and we as a country need to wake up and stand up for God's ways. They just passed an antihate crime against homosexuals which may have an impact on what people say. I by no means hate anyone...because I know God made everyone and He loves everyone; but we have to love Him back. Everyone sins and it's never too late to change so even they can be forgiven. Everyone has hope but as the Bible says we need to seek Him while He can be found because in the last days people will seek Him and won't find Him...He will refuse to hear them because they never listened to Him! I believe it partly has to do with the fact that God knows what is going to happen and knows who is going to seek Him and who is not going to seek Him...so when He knows someones actions then it doesn't hurt that person to harden their heart because really it's already hardened...God is just making sure His will is accomplished. He knows best and that's all that matters. As long as we remember He is a righteous judge and the ONLY one we can fully trust then we know we are in good hands and that's we our trust and love for Him come!
I think what we forget is that God gives us a choice for example read Deuteronomy 28 (blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience)....He tells us from the beginning ok here are your choices (even as it says in New Testament to choose life)...however, He also knows what is going to happen...this is how prophecy can be done and how in Deut. 31:16-21 after He told them the blessings and curses He then told them they would break His covenant and have many troubles...so He KNOWS the outcome but just because He knows the outcome doesn't mean we are predestined. He gives us options and says ok choose and He knows who will choose what...When He wants something done He will use whoever He will and I feel/hope that when He knows our heart is really for Him and we really want to do right that He will show us somehow or another no matter who we are or what religion we are...Islam, Hindu, etc. It's harder for someone in another religion to see the truth but we have to trust that God knows their heart and I feel that if someone really loves Him they will seek Him and He says they will find Him..so like I said before we just have to trust that He knows what He is doing...lol obviously. There are many questions but it's because it is beyond our thinking and understanding. When we have a disobedient child we punish him and we let him fall sometimes and once they fall they usually come back understanding and thankful. This is how God is...He is literally our father and does the same thing and we are even given an example of the prodigal son. Everything He does for us is for our own good....even the tribulation...which crap hits the fan and people don't have their riches (people will be throwing their gold in the streets) and they don't have anything they depeneded on they will realize what life is about and what is important. Many have gotten wrapped up in this world and what it has to offer that they have forgotten what really matters and they are storing up their treasures in the wrong place. He is for all of us and He wants all of us saved but we are individuals and we have individual choices to make and ultimately it is up to us what we choose...so everyone PLEASE choose life!