Saint Paul seems to be saying that G-d created sin, in creating flesh, “flesh is the source of sin, and without flesh, sin is not possible”, and humans fixed him by murdering Jesus. Mat 23:10 Jesus says that he alone is the teacher. Yet Paul's followers pretend that Jesus has some other purpose, while they use Paul as their teacher.
This is very confusing to me. Isn’t it supposed to be Christianity?
Questions:
1) If flesh is the source of sin what’s that say for Satan?
2) Isn’t he blaming G-d for creating sin then?
3) Paul is saying there was no sin before human life was created. Is this true?
Best regards,
Avraham
Avraham says that Paul says: “flesh is the source of sin, and without flesh, sin is not possible”
This is an untrue statement and I ask Avraham to stop spreading false statements. None of your other three statements/questions are true either. If you really want answers to your questions, then read the Bible for yourself and put in real quotes to discuss.
And who are these followers of Paul that you refer to? If you think that there are any followers of Paul here to pick arguments with, then start a new thread addressed specifically to them.
“Avraham says that Paul says: “flesh is the source of sin, and without flesh, sin is not possible”
“This is an untrue statement and I ask Avraham to stop spreading false statements. None of your other three statements/questions are true either. If you really want answers to your questions, then read the Bible for yourself and put in real quotes to discuss.”
(Rom 8:3) Then God sent his Son in the likeness of sinful flesh as a sin offering, thereby condemning sin in the flesh...
(Gal 5:16,17) My point is that you should live in accord with the spirit and you will not yield to the cravings of the flesh. The flesh lusts against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh; the two are directly opposed.
Best regards,
Avraham
Saint Paul seems to be saying that G-d created sin, in creating flesh, “flesh is the source of sin, and without flesh, sin is not possible”, and humans fixed him by murdering Jesus. Mat 23:10 Jesus says that he alone is the teacher. Yet Paul's followers pretend that Jesus has some other purpose, while they use Paul as their teacher.
This is very confusing to me. Isn’t it supposed to be Christianity?
Questions:
1) If flesh is the source of sin what’s that say for Satan?
2) Isn’t he blaming G-d for creating sin then?
3) Paul is saying there was no sin before human life was created. Is this true?
Best regards,
Avraham
Saint Paul seems to be saying that G-d created sin, in creating flesh, “flesh is the source of sin, and without flesh, sin is not possible”, and humans fixed him by murdering Jesus. Mat 23:10 Jesus says that he alone is the teacher. Yet Paul's followers pretend that Jesus has some other purpose, while they use Paul as their teacher.
1. there is not spiting up christians into groups jesus followers vs paul because all christians follow jesus and so did paul.
2. You need to understand the result of sin is from mankind sinning so it was because of us not because of God , adam chose to disobey God.
Paul is saying there was no sin before human life was created. Is this true?
paul says nothing of the sort I would like a scripture where it says that.
“Avraham says that Paul says: “flesh is the source of sin, and without flesh, sin is not possible”
“This is an untrue statement and I ask Avraham to stop spreading false statements. None of your other three statements/questions are true either. If you really want answers to your questions, then read the Bible for yourself and put in real quotes to discuss.”
(Rom 8:3) Then God sent his Son in the likeness of sinful flesh as a sin offering, thereby condemning sin in the flesh...
(Gal 5:16,17) My point is that you should live in accord with the spirit and you will not yield to the cravings of the flesh. The flesh lusts against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh; the two are directly opposed.
Best regards,
Avraham
Avraham when we disobey God sin came enter the world and corrupted Our human nature this is what paul teaches, but to add I fail to see where paul says our flesh is the source of sin, it more of disobeying is the source that lead to our human fall.
Dear Thomas,
“This is a very long leap from stating that sin's action works in OUR flesh to saying that flesh is the cause of sin. “
But perhaps the most glaring difference between Paul and Jesus theologies is:
THE PARABLE OF THE PRODIGAL SON
When the Gospel of Jesus is reduced to its simplest form The Father wants absolutely only one thing from us, the same thing that the prodigal's father wanted: that we arise and go to Him.
Return, (Teshuva) and keep Torah. Beautiful. Paul on the other hand requires a human sacrifice? Really? Pagan gods require that but not the G-d of Israel.
Best regards,
Avraham
Dear sugarman,
“Avraham when we disobey God sin came enter the world and corrupted Our human nature this is what paul teaches, but to add I fail to see where paul says our flesh is the source of sin, it more of disobeying is the source that lead to our human fall.”
Paul isn't quoting Hebrew Scriptures or delivering a message from God. He is describing what he believes is the logic of the subject. He is saying that flesh has a problem with it, original sin, because it creates passions. Instead of God's commandments fixing everything, it forced Israel to defy him. God got angry because of their defiance, and killing Jesus fixed the problem?
Why would killing Jesus fix the problem? Paul's strange logic implies that Israel displeased God by showing him that they could not live by his laws, that he gave them and knew they could not keep, and crucifying Jesus was the fix. So God relinquished his demands and only required the “flesh and blood” of his son? That’s an odd view of G-d don’t you think?
Best regards,
Avraham
"(Gal 5:16,17) My point is that you should live in accord with the spirit and you will not yield to the cravings of the flesh. The flesh lusts against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh; the two are directly opposed."
These passages of scripture are directed to the churches of Galatia, not to Satan, or an angel, or a principality in the heavenlies. It is describing the human condition after the new birth. In the new birth, the old inner man is crucified with Christ, and a new spiritual man is created. This is also called the circumcision of the heart. However, the flesh is still sinful, because there has been no change. Thus the sinful flesh strives against the spirit.
Of course, this is a deep spiritual truth of which you are not familiar. It is quite possible that the Methodist pastor you studied with was not familiar with it either. Not being familiar with these deep spiritual truths, it is possible to distort them into any number of misunderstandings, as Peter mentions in II Peter 3:16. However, it is not sustainable to generalize them to a statement that flesh is the source of sin. The most you can say from these passages is that the natural human flesh is the seat of sin in the born-again Christian. I have found that to be completely true.
"Paul on the other hand requires a human sacrifice? Really? Pagan gods require that but not the G-d of Israel."
No, Paul does not require a human sacrifice. Paul simply was a prophet explaining what Jesus meant when He said, "even as the Son of man did not come to be served, but to serve, and give His life a ransom for many." (Matthew 20:28) G-d does not demand from us, as pagan gods do. He gives to us.
Dear Thomas,
“This is a very long leap from stating that sin's action works in OUR flesh to saying that flesh is the cause of sin. “
But perhaps the most glaring difference between Paul and Jesus theologies is:
THE PARABLE OF THE PRODIGAL SON
When the Gospel of Jesus is reduced to its simplest form The Father wants absolutely only one thing from us, the same thing that the prodigal's father wanted: that we arise and go to Him.
Return, (Teshuva) and keep Torah. Beautiful. Paul on the other hand requires a human sacrifice? Really? Pagan gods require that but not the G-d of Israel.
Best regards,
Avraham
Avraham there is no differents from Jesus and paul view on salvation. jesus himself also said I must die but will rise on the 3 day.
as for the pagan part you have to understand that God condemns sacrifice to pagan idols not that God condemns human sacrifice in General. There are plenty of verses that deal with pagan sacrifice but I eyt to find one to deal with human sacrifice in General. I'm not saying we can sacrifice people today for our sins No because Jesus is The saacrifice.
Dear sugarman,
“Avraham when we disobey God sin came enter the world and corrupted Our human nature this is what paul teaches, but to add I fail to see where paul says our flesh is the source of sin, it more of disobeying is the source that lead to our human fall.”
Paul isn't quoting Hebrew Scriptures or delivering a message from God. He is describing what he believes is the logic of the subject. He is saying that flesh has a problem with it, original sin, because it creates passions. Instead of God's commandments fixing everything, it forced Israel to defy him. God got angry because of their defiance, and killing Jesus fixed the problem?
Why would killing Jesus fix the problem? Paul's strange logic implies that Israel displeased God by showing him that they could not live by his laws, that he gave them and knew they could not keep, and crucifying Jesus was the fix. So God relinquished his demands and only required the “flesh and blood” of his son? That’s an odd view of G-d don’t you think?
Best regards,
Avraham
1. acutally paul is quoting hebrew passages. it very clear in the OT israel could not keep God Law and if they could then why did God say They had broken their Covenant that I made with them and must make a new one?
Jesus kept and fulfilled The Law He paid the price of death that the law brings to anyone is found gullity from it and today when we disobey God we have an advocate on our side.
Also The concept of a righteous person laying his down and not foreign t all jewish writtings.