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In the book of Romans in the christian bible, Paul encourages the gentiles to provoke the Jews to jealousy.

What should I, as an orthodox Jew, be jealous of a christian for? I can't think of a single thing!



Cupcake Wrote:

In the book of Romans in the christian bible, Paul encourages the gentiles to provoke the Jews to jealousy.

What should I, as an orthodox Jew, be jealous of a christian for? I can't think of a single thing!




[ Isaiah1:2,3][ Matthew 22:1-14]
"What should I, as an orthodox Jew, be jealous of a christian for? I can't think of a single thing!"

Assurance of eternal life in the kingdom of God.  Peace of mind.  Being able to talk to the heavenly Father  and know He is with me in a personal way.  Or, maybe you don't know Christians who have those things.

You seem to think that this is a conept that Paul invented, but it was promised through Moses in Deuteronomy 32:21: "They have provoked My jealousy with a non god, provoked My anger with their vanities. Thus, I will provoke their jealousy with a non people, provoke their anger with a foolish nation."
Robert

Isaiah is an easy text, but the book goes forth with a lot of contact between the people and The Almighty. He wants contact.
So what does this has to do with Christians? in the first case, it is here still written ''MY people'' So the Almighty still has a connection. That is here not written about the Christians. So I don't see any connection with the topic even.

In Matthew it becomes more difficult. First of all we ''have'' to believe that The Almighty agrees with this kind of thinking by finding proof in our texts.
Than, here is nothing speciffically written about Jews or non-Jews, not even about Christians or non-Christians... So you can't base any truth for cultural-jealousy here I think.  It's just written, good and bad people.
People who are called, but not Choosen. (vers 14 in my Dutch version, the Dutch versions where older and partly the basis for the King James).

Then even on the basis of vers 14 We might write: We where allready Choosen and payed for like Mozes said. So who are those people who are called but not Choosen???  We as Jews believe that The Almighty can call other people or Choose them also, but that has nothing to do with some promisses The Almighty made to us allready.

So than the question stays: ''what should we be jealous off?''

And even in Matthew, it could even mean that some Christians or Pagans were called, but didn't respond and by that are not Choosen... That sounds to me more a technicall solution for Matthew here.
ThomasDGW Wrote:

"What should I, as an orthodox Jew, be jealous of a christian for? I can't think of a single thing!"

Assurance of eternal life in the kingdom of God.  Peace of mind.  Being able to talk to the heavenly Father  and know He is with me in a personal way.  Or, maybe you don't know Christians who have those things.


Thomas,
What makes you think we don't have peace of mind, the ability to talk to the heavenly father and know that He is with us in a personal way?

Of course we have that! That is the whole essence of Judaism.

As far as eternal life is concerned, well, I think you and I have a different perspective on what eternal life is. King solomon tells me my soul will return to the Creator.
searchinmyroots Wrote:

ThomasDGW Wrote:

"What should I, as an orthodox Jew, be jealous of a christian for? I can't think of a single thing!"

Assurance of eternal life in the kingdom of God.  Peace of mind.  Being able to talk to the heavenly Father  and know He is with me in a personal way.  Or, maybe you don't know Christians who have those things.


Thomas,
What makes you think we don't have peace of mind, the ability to talk to the heavenly father and know that He is with us in a personal way?

Of course we have that! That is the whole essence of Judaism.

As far as eternal life is concerned, well, I think you and I have a different perspective on what eternal life is. King solomon tells me my soul will return to the Creator.



Then If Judaism has such a powerfull connectin with God with peace of mind etc... then why do they hide their light from gentiles when the OT says The servant will be a light unto other nations?  Judisam does not like to spread it doctrine too much to gentiles right? I mean I can not shut up at times at wanting to tell people about Christ where is the same revolution Change in you that I have?

2.  We also believe when we die our spirit returns to The creator at least thoses who had Christ.
"Of course we have that! That is the whole essence of Judaism."

I can't argue with you.  I just have heard some Jews say they did not have those things.

"King solomon tells me my soul will return to the Creator."

Ecclesiastes 12:7: "And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God, Who gave it."

The spirit returns to God.  And what happens to your soul then?  Do you wonder, or wish to know?  If you don't, I have nothing useful to say to you about it.  If you do, you might be jealous of someone who really would know.  I think you are supposed to wonder.

Notice that Deuteronomy 32:21 tells us that God would provoke His people, which of course is Israel, to jealousy by those that are no people, which of course refers to gentiles.  This tells us that God was planning to provide something to gentiles that Jewish people would be jealous of.  It is incumbent on a believer in the Torah to figure out what that something is, because by now it has surely happened.  Instead, you are trying to say that such a thing could never happen because Jewish people always have everything and more than gentiles.

So, cupcake, if you believe the Torah, it is your turn.  You brought this up.  How about some suggestions for what possibly HaShem could have done or given to gentiles to provoke Jews to jealousy.
sugarman Wrote:

Then If Judaism has such a powerfull connectin with God with peace of mind etc... then why do they hide their light from gentiles when the OT says The servant will be a light unto other nations?  Judisam does not like to spread it doctrine too much to gentiles right? I mean I can not shut up at times at wanting to tell people about Christ where is the same revolution Change in you that I have?


The Jewish people did at one time share the Word of the Almighty Creator. After hundreds upon thousands of years of being slaughtered for our beliefs, it was thought to be better to be an example of what G-d requires from us. If anyone comes with sincere questions, we are more than happy to answer.

The Hebrew Bible tells us what will happen in the end of days;

Zechariah 8:23 Thus saith HaShem of hosts: In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold, out of all the languages of the nations, shall even take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying: We will go with you, for we have heard that G-d is with you.'

Jeremiah 16:19 O HaShem, my strength, and my stronghold, and my refuge, in the day of affliction, unto Thee shall the nations come from the ends of the earth, and shall say: 'Our fathers have inherited nought but lies, vanity and things wherein there is no profit.'

Deuteronomy 4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and ordinances, even as HaShem my G-d commanded me, that ye should do so in the midst of the land whither ye go in to possess it.

6 Observe therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the peoples, that, when they hear all these statutes, shall say: 'Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.'



Well it's all a matter of perspective. The agnostic will says: "Come, there is not enough evidence". The hindu will say: "all religions are the one and the same" and while the muslim will decapitate both the Jew and Xian and cry "Allahuakbar". The Jew will say we have true relationship with the father via the son, while the orthodox rabbinic camp will say, as SMR does, we already have relationship with the LORD.

You asked for an answer, and Thomas and Robert both gave you adequate replies.

What did you expect from a Jew for Jesus anyways?
searchinmyroots Wrote:

ThomasDGW Wrote:

"What should I, as an orthodox Jew, be jealous of a christian for? I can't think of a single thing!"

Assurance of eternal life in the kingdom of God.  Peace of mind.  Being able to talk to the heavenly Father  and know He is with me in a personal way.  Or, maybe you don't know Christians who have those things.


Thomas,
What makes you think we don't have peace of mind, the ability to talk to the heavenly father and know that He is with us in a personal way?

Of course we have that! That is the whole essence of Judaism.

As far as eternal life is concerned, well, I think you and I have a different perspective on what eternal life is. King solomon tells me my soul will return to the Creator.



I believed God when He said:
While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Because I believed He visits me and I fellowship with the Father. I have many real times with the God of Creation. When He talks to me in an audible voice He comforts me, guides me, shows me His Home in Heaven and the people that live in Heaven, He corrects me when I error or don't understand, fixes things in my life, promises me and when He does it always happens!

His Son is with me all the day, He is my Shepherd and my Love. I have seen the Throne in Heaven where a great multitude being the Host and man stand before and worship God. This Throne has three places where The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit sit. Very great in size and area.
All those in Heaven worship the Father , His Son the Saviour, and the Holy Spirit.
Your different perspective on what eternal life is, is your own, not from above. I have seen God's House, outer darkness, and the depths of hell. THey are all real places! Messiah said what would happen to those who reject Him and His words. From His Father to the lips of the psalmist. "Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little.  Blessed are all they that put their trust in him."
The Psalm say's Love His Son or perish. As God said to the Disciples of His Son, Hear Him. David amd his Son Daniel knew their Lord and waited for the day they would be redeemed.
You do not fellowship with the God of Abraham. You pray to Him but without the Atonement He is not with you. The Lord Jesus's parables speak of those who reject the Son.
I challenge you searchinmyroots. Have you or any of you who call youselves Orthodox in this 2k type Judaism have a testimony of Hearing from the God of Abraham.
I'm quit confident that you and yours have no testimony of hearing or seeing from God as written in the Torah, Tanach or the New Continued Testimony of God and man, the New Testament. If you have than give me something that is REAL!
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