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Daniel 9:24 spoke of 70 weeks.  In verse 25 is says 'Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem under Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks' (which is 69 weeks)

Under the Jewish calendar a year was 360 days.  69 x 7 x 360 = 173,880 days

The decree to rebuild the temple was on March 14, 445 B.C.  Exactly 173,880 days later was the triumphal entry of Messiah into Jerusalem riding on a donkey on April 6, 32 A.D. as was also foretold at Zech 9:9 'Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass'.  

The purpose of his coming was stated at Daniel 9:24 to 'finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity'.  

Of him Isaiah prophesied 'he was despised, and we esteemed him not.  Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.  But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.  All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all'.  Is. 53:3-6

'And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications; and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn'. Zech. 12:10

The decree that restituted the treasure of the Temple and started the close of the Babylonian captivity (return of the last Jews) - Maybe.

This might help clarify a bit.

The actual date of the decree was MARCH 14, 445 B.C. We know this
from Neh 2:1-6 that the decree was issued "in the Month of Nisan, in
the 20th year" of Artaxerxes' reign. History records Artaxerxes' reign
as being from 465-425 B.C. History also records that "The 1st of Nisan
is a new year for the computation of the reign of Kings and for
festivals" so we know that the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, which
would have been a major decree, was issued on the First of Nisan,
which in 445 B.C. fell on March 14.


This document has been found, which is an amazing fact in itself.  The prophecy was concerning when Messiah would come, although it did happen when the Jews were returning from Babylon.  

So let's resume and be clear about all this:

1. It is not the rebuilding of the temple, but the rebuilding of Jerusalem.

2. It is not Ezra's decree that concerned the restitution of the Temple treasure.

3. It could be the "letters" given by Arctaxerxes to Nehemiah (Neh 2:7) - Letters that would be in accord with the orthodox view in the Book of Daniel (Daniel 9: 25  And you shall know and understand that from the emergence of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem ...) ( here) .

Which document - a decree??? - the letters?  / and where can it be found?

Or is it just the word of Arctaxerxes?

Kosherette, there has never been a 360 day Jewish year.  This is a myth made up by Chrstians trying to make the dates in Daniel 9 work.

They don't.  The idea of a 360 day year originated in a book written by Sir Robert Anderson in the late 19th century.  

Even assuming that there had been a 360 day Jewish year (and there hasn't) the sabbatical calendar doesn't work for the J-sus as fulfillment of Daniel because, again, the timing doesn't work. Robert Newman, the "inventor" of the Sabbatical year J-sus theory starts at 445 B.C.E as his starting point for the seven-year sabbatical cycle 449-442 B.C.E. 445 BCE was not a Sabbatical year -- so that is his first error. http://www.jewishencyclop...L%20YEAR%20AND%20JUBILEE

So even using the mythical 360 day year, the timing doesn't work for J-sus.

But even if Newman were right and 445 BCE was a Sabbatical year -- he requires 69 of them to get to 28-35 CE. Oops. It isn't 70 (remember) but 2 separate time frames of 7 and 62. So he started off with a faulty theory by lumping them together as 69.

Counting 69 or 70 "weeks" is irrelevant. The time frames are 7 and 62 -- and there are two messiahs, not one.

But the Tanach makes it clear that it IS Cyrus who is the first messiah.

The anointed one Daniel referred to, in 9:25 is Cyrus, king of Babylon, who authorized rebuilding of the Temple. Read Daniel 10:1.

It is funny that you say Jsus' arrival was foretold to the day when Chrstian experts can't even agree what YEAR Jsus was born (if he ever was born).  Missionaries pick a time line based on Artaxerxes to get them closer to the dates around Xianity -- but they ignore the T'nach when they do this. Any 490 year time line that does not include Cyrus and his edict is wrong.




Above, we see 2 things. In verse 44:28, Cyrus is clearly referenced as the person who is to deliver the edict to rebuild Jerusalem and the Temple. Also, in verse 45:1, Cyrus is clearly called G-d's annointed (Messiah).

So, you finally appear here, Sophiee!  This area of historical study is not my specialty, as I think you remember, however I am learning and there are some observations I want to make.

The first is that the 360 day year is not a myth made up by Robert Anderson or other Christians trying to prove Daniel 9, but it has been a suggestion alluded to by many including Immanuel Velikovsky and the Babylonian use of 360 degrees in a circle.  It comes out in the New Testament in Revelation in the day year equivalents in the prophecies there, and in the reference of Daniel 12:7 to a time, times and half a time.  I believe that the year as originally created had 360 days, whether or not a known Jewish calendar contained that fact.

I don' t see any mention of the Sabbatical year by Kosherette or anyone else here, so I don't know why you bring that up.  Are you copying from a standard countermissionary reply?

If Cyrus is the one who delivers the edict, then seven sevens later the messiah is to appear, then Cyrus cannot be THAT messiah, since he did not reign for 49 years.

The starting point of the 70 sevens (Daniel 9:24) is the going forth, or the emergence of the word or the commandment to restore and rebuild Jerusalem.  Declaring that Jerusalem shall be rebuilt is not the same as sending forth a command to do it.  You see, in Isaiah 44:26 God Himself made the same statement "Who says of Jerusalem, "It shall be settled," and of the cities of Judah, "They shall be built, and its ruins I will erect."  That certainly wasn't the going forth of the commandment to rebuild and so neither was Cyrus' statements.  Such a commandment must be a specific direction to rebuild Jerusalem, and such a commandment was not recorded as given by Cyrus, but by Artaxerxes to Nehemiah.

Finally, the fact that Christian scholars do not agree on something does not annul the accuracy of the prophecies from God.  The majority has almost never been right.

Well well well,



I never heard of a Jewish year of 360 days. For us, the amount of days is not important. (nowadays there are still I think 4 versions of amount of days that a Jewish year can have.).
Like muslims, with us months are going according to the moon, but we have a correction that is needed to let spring always start in the right season. With muslims the years are just shorter, and ramadan moves back every year about 2 weeks I think, acc to the Christian counting).

In Babel, they had a year of 360 days + 5. (the five where just a long holiday extra, something like we have 1 day extra the 29th of Februari at the end of the original Roman year.

In the book of Esther you can find that she got (asked by the Babylonian ruler) for 180 days oil on her body, this is acc to the Babylonian counting of days. So indeed you can read in Tenach some other customs, but it doesn't claim it is a Jewish custom or counting.
Indeed Jews (as every religion) takes things or names from other cultures (and The Almighty didn't tell us how to name our months), so Nisan was a Babylonian name.  So we can claim that the month of Nisan is a Babylonian, or nowadays Jewish and Turkish month. But about counting our year, the Almighty is quite clear, it has to go according to the moon, and acc. to Spring.

It is indeed weird that Jesus would have died on april 6th in the year 32???
Where did you get it from.
Acc. to most or all historians, Jesus was born at least before Herod died in 4 before Christ (so Christ was born at least 4 years before Christ), meaning that in the year 32 he must have been at least 36 what doesn't fit with the Christian Testament...
Often the countings around the year 30 are based on claims on what day Christ died in the week. (What for us Jews is totally not important). And it is not written in the Chistian Testament, when Jesus exactly rose from death etc. and some argue that he died on thursday or friday etc. It's hard to calculate back.
It might have been important to us if he died on the 13th or 14th of Nisan.

But as long as Christians and Jews think differently it's hard to understand eachother. Important is also to know what it means ''the hour in the day'' etc.
Once I heard a Christian minister speaking about a Solar eclips during the time Jesus was on the cross... what is technically not posible on Full moon like 14th/15th of Nisan.

Well I wrote allready about 15 different countings what would be exactly the foretold day... Maybe I know for shure when I'm in heaven. But anyway I have to follow The Almighties instrucutions during Pesach, there is no 2nd Mozes or so who can overule the Almighty, so I keep my customs.

I should not have said Jewish calendar.  The Bible does tell us how long a year is to God.  Throughout the Bible there are references to a 3 1/2 year period.  It is referred to as time, times and the dividing of time, 42 months and 1260 days.  Also    Genesis 7:11  In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights. And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days. And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

The time period from the 17th day of the 2nd month, to the 17th day of the 7th month (a period of exactly 5 months), is 150 days. This implies that a biblical month has 30 days, and a Biblical year has 360 days.

There is an interesting article at http://www.ancient-world-mysteries.com/360-days.html which details the proofs that the earth ideally had years consisting of 360 days.  The Sumerians and Babylonians both used 360 day calendars we well (although they knew these to be inaccurate at the time).  

You'll have to forgive me for using so many links as I have been ill these last few months. http://www.gotquestions.org/length-Jesus-ministry.html has a fascinating article about the prophecy lining up with what we know about when Jesus ministry took place.  

Jesus was the fulfillment of the prophecies spoken of in the Old Testament, in fact about 300.  Not to mention that scores of New Testament prophecies regarding the end times are taking place as we speak.  The words of Revelation and Matthew chapter 24 are today's headlines.  

I should not have said Jewish year either... All the times that the Almighty gave us, are his times. It are his festivals etc. So in that are you right.

Anyway I still ask myself where do you find in the our books that it is exactly written 1260??? Just curious because I might miss the point. In revelations it's written 1260, but I searched a few times, but didn't see it yet in our books.

a lunar month, that The Almighty gave us, as Jews, Muslims. (even some others like Tibettans use it). has an everage of 29,530588 days (because of the moon!)
Babylonians used exactly 30 days, and didn't connect it to the moon exactly. So even some prophecies might be given under a Babylonian monthcounting, that is maybe not Godly but maybe biblicall... So you have to proof where the text says it exactly considered to what culture. For Tammuz is a Babylonian name, like Nisan and others.

So 5 months has an everage of 29 days, 12 hours, 44 minutes and 2,8 seconds. Then 5 months have about: 147 days, 15 hours, 40 minutes and 14 seconds.  A Godly year will never have 5 months of 30 days in a row.

So somehow proof is needed that in Ezechiel etc. a Babylonian counting is uses, or literly written 1260 days, outside of the Christian Testament off course.

A Godly year has about 354 days, it is different per year, and if we did add a month of Adar2 than it is about 383 days. Even there is a connection that The Almighty gives an option in case of need, to celebrate Pesach 1 month later. Everything is thought over by The Almighty.

Muslims don't count an extra month. So by that the month Ramadan goes back about 11 days compared to the Roman counting. And according to Godly counting it goes sometimes 1 month back in HIS calander. This means that for example this year, their Ramadam started on the 1st of our 7th month = Rosh HaShannah, and that Muslims celebrated their 10th day together with us at Yom Kippur. But in a few years they will anyway celebrate their Yom Kippur earlier in the Roman and Jewish year.

Christianity, Babylon and Islam have all kind of misconceptions about how THE ALMIGHTY counted the year. So please explain why the 3 1/2 year period is exactly 1260 days. Or why form the 17th of Tammuz till the 7th day of the 7th month can be 150 days.???

Thanks allready for the answer, I'm curious.

About the 150 days

Indeed it's weird to count 150 days within the timeperiod of 5 months. Now I see more what is the conflict. Maybe I ask a Rabbi and others...

Some people, Scientists, Jews, Christians claim that before Noah there was a different type of atmoshphere and that the earth might have moved slower. And that a huge impact of some sort (like meteriorite) might have caused change in athmosphere... (for only afterwards is mentioned that the rainbow was special, or maybe sawn for the first time).
That is 1 explaination.

Nowadays in the Jewish cycle, and what some Greeks used, and besides that all Churces for the counting of Passover (even Messianics in another way by keeping the Jewish calander, and the Celts who kept 14 Nissan till the 9th century) is close to the Metonic Cylce of 19 years. For then you come towards 365,26 days a year.
19 years has 235 moonmonths
But than it is for 42 months close to 1240 days, and not 1260.

It is weird that the Babylonians used 360 days + 5. Because before the book of Revelations it was known that the year was longer than a maybe original 360. But John (if he wrote revelations) is still using 1260 might be a little bit odd.

o.k. you made me curious... but still I don't see the number 1260 in our books.