11-29-2006, 04:51 AM
In regards to the Book of Revelation, the dating has generally been accepted as probably between 90 - 96 A.D. in Christian academic circles. This dating is "comfortable" because it places such horrifying visions to an age when John would have likely suffered some sort of dementia, which none of the Apostles suffered.
What is the primary method to date Revelation as 90 - 96? Generally, by taking Irenaeus out of context, as he relates the history given him by Polycarp (and others who knew John).
“…As the Gospel and all the elders testify; those who were conversant in Asia with John, the Disciple of the LORD, that John conveyed to them that information. And he remained among them up to the times of Trajan.” (Against Heresies, 2.2.25)
“…Again, the Church in Ephesus, founded by Paul, and having John remaining among them permanently until the times of Trajan, is a true witness of the Tradition of the Apostles.” (A.H.,3.3.4)
In the next quote, an "it" instead of the pronoun "he" is normally inserted, when "he" is the correct insertion based on the context.
"We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing positively as to
the Name of AntiChrist; for if it were necessary that his Name should be
distinctly revealed in this Present Time, it would have been announced by him who beheld the Apocalyptic Vision. For * [He} * was seen no very long time since, but almost in our day, at the end of Domitian’s
reign. But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this
man comes, we may avoid him, being aware who he is….” (A.H. 5.30.3-4)
In Patmos, we find that John—in Revelation 1:9 -- experiences the "Affliction" or “Tribulation” of Thlipsei: from “Thlipsis” (in the Greek). It is not the actual bondage of Chains, as we find with the Greek “Desmos (e.g. Acts 26:31, 22:30, and cf. 20:23). Thlipsis is an emotionally and psychologically horrifying period of stress, where one feels as though a great weight were crushing down on top of them, while also being squeezed from all sides. In short, John felt great humiliation.
An examination of Tertullian and Clement of Alexandria shows that John was "apheimi" or "sent away" as one "expelled" or told "to get out of town" by the local governor (of Asia), and returned after this one died...but was never expelled out of Asia again. Thus, the unbroken tenure of John begins as calculated from that time. Paul does not give up jurisdiction until Acts 20:17 ff., in the month of April 54 A.D.
In the Fragments of Caius, we are shown that Paul read Revelation PRIOR TO HIS COMPLETING HIS ECCLESIASTICAL EPISTLES, and approved the book; and limiting Church epistles to 7 Churches: based on the work he approved. We see this insight in Paul's passage of 2 Thessalonians 2 on Anti-Christ, for example.
(The "man of desolation" also a teaching out of Genesis 6:4"s "men of name", as well as from Daniel...and on and on we can go.)
Revelation was written following the Ephesian uproar. Date this activity, and you date the less than one year expulsion of John.
Any one interested in a further probing of this kind of thread?
What is the primary method to date Revelation as 90 - 96? Generally, by taking Irenaeus out of context, as he relates the history given him by Polycarp (and others who knew John).
“…As the Gospel and all the elders testify; those who were conversant in Asia with John, the Disciple of the LORD, that John conveyed to them that information. And he remained among them up to the times of Trajan.” (Against Heresies, 2.2.25)
“…Again, the Church in Ephesus, founded by Paul, and having John remaining among them permanently until the times of Trajan, is a true witness of the Tradition of the Apostles.” (A.H.,3.3.4)
In the next quote, an "it" instead of the pronoun "he" is normally inserted, when "he" is the correct insertion based on the context.
"We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing positively as to
the Name of AntiChrist; for if it were necessary that his Name should be
distinctly revealed in this Present Time, it would have been announced by him who beheld the Apocalyptic Vision. For * [He} * was seen no very long time since, but almost in our day, at the end of Domitian’s
reign. But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this
man comes, we may avoid him, being aware who he is….” (A.H. 5.30.3-4)
In Patmos, we find that John—in Revelation 1:9 -- experiences the "Affliction" or “Tribulation” of Thlipsei: from “Thlipsis” (in the Greek). It is not the actual bondage of Chains, as we find with the Greek “Desmos (e.g. Acts 26:31, 22:30, and cf. 20:23). Thlipsis is an emotionally and psychologically horrifying period of stress, where one feels as though a great weight were crushing down on top of them, while also being squeezed from all sides. In short, John felt great humiliation.
An examination of Tertullian and Clement of Alexandria shows that John was "apheimi" or "sent away" as one "expelled" or told "to get out of town" by the local governor (of Asia), and returned after this one died...but was never expelled out of Asia again. Thus, the unbroken tenure of John begins as calculated from that time. Paul does not give up jurisdiction until Acts 20:17 ff., in the month of April 54 A.D.
In the Fragments of Caius, we are shown that Paul read Revelation PRIOR TO HIS COMPLETING HIS ECCLESIASTICAL EPISTLES, and approved the book; and limiting Church epistles to 7 Churches: based on the work he approved. We see this insight in Paul's passage of 2 Thessalonians 2 on Anti-Christ, for example.
(The "man of desolation" also a teaching out of Genesis 6:4"s "men of name", as well as from Daniel...and on and on we can go.)
Revelation was written following the Ephesian uproar. Date this activity, and you date the less than one year expulsion of John.
Any one interested in a further probing of this kind of thread?
