01-21-2007, 08:48 AM
Hello,
The reason I am here is because I have recently begun a research project on the historicity of Jesus Christ and would like to gather my sources and intellectual knowledge before I start to produce anything.
First off I will be asking questions to help gather a perspective of those that came from the background culture of Judaism, obviously Christianity evolved from Judaism, but some of the claims the critics are making are made as a direct attack on Christianity alone, in addition, there are some theories to make an attempt to divert Christianity from Judaism as to suppose Christianity was a pagan cult in its early form.
Here are some extreme atheisitc websites I would like to address: http://www.thegodmovie.com/ and Ken Humphrey's http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/
I realize that the claims of popular culture are poor and ill-conceived, it would appear that the claims that the early Jews stole from the Zodiac (as implied by Acharaya S.) and that the early "Christians" stole from other Hellenistic mythological characters and used it to fabricate a messiah figure called Jesus.
As I would logically think, the greatest similarities of all come between Christ and the sun-god Mithras, but these similarities are the same as concluding that the Aztecs stole the architectual designs for their pyramids from the Egyptians, even though the Aztecs were an ancient society thousands of miles across the globe away from Egypt, yet, they had similar constructions in their empire as the Egyptians did in theirs, as well as the use of aqueducts, which were also used by the Roman Empire, quickly we would begin to notice that this theory would crumble simply because it has many, many, impossible assumptions that are being intertwined with each other to make it look as though indeed some "copying" was involved, the same can be said of Christ in comparison with Mithras.
So the second approach the critics enjoy taking is to destroy the foundations of Christianity and to "butcher" them, so to speak, after all, without the prophecies of a forecoming Messianic leader, it would definetly leave us to conclude noneother than to say that Christianity is another myth taken from earlier myths.
We'll cross out the books of Isaiah for instance to help better support the critical view, and we'll just say that the book of Psalms is not a book of anything prophetical, but a poetic book filled with songs of prayer, this would then say that most of what is foretold in the bible ("the piercing of hands and feet") is very "vague", especially when the virgin birth foretold in Isaiah 7:14 is not actually a virgin but a young woman, but of course, this has already been configured: http://www.carm.org/diff/Isaiah7_14.htm
Furthermore, exactly what are the differences between Christianity and Judaism? According to many critics, they say that modern day Hebrews do not believe in demons, Satan, and in hell, even though there is tons of those references in the Old Testament! False gods are demons, (king Solomon was an exorcist!) Satan ruins Job's life, the serpent tempts Adam and Eve (how can the serpent be figurative? I have seen references to demons being "serpents" it doesn't make any sense) so does Christianity match with anything that has to do with Judaism? Jesus seems to be telling his followers to worship the Jewish God, how is it that this is just another myth? Why would a group of Jews need something to believe in and borrowed from these 'mystery religions' and fabricated this person just so that they could gain power? Why would they need anything to "believe in" to begin with, when they already had Jehovah in the picture?
Alright, so now some of the critics are welling to bend this just a bit further and say it plainly: "Jesus existed", but what some of them won't do is say that he was executed or that he had any intent of creating a religion (which as far as I know, he didn't), or perhaps in better words, he never claimed to be the Son of God, and he didn't perform any wonderous miracles.
However even the Roman records confirm his execution:
And his considered divinity:
It also seems that much of Christianity is just a revision of Jewish traditions: the Lord's Supper is a revision of Passover Eve, Jesus being a descendant of Judah made him the lion that represents Judah, and him being the lam of God, found in Psalms.
Mainly what are these differences, how can Christianity not be of Judaism? I understand that the Jewish people were expecting a political ruler to come forth and establish an earthly kingdom, Jesus spoke of a spiritual kingdom, are the Old Testament prophecies really "vague" or is it possible that so many atheists and Jews discard things and make it seem as though the authors of the Gospels went back and wrote a story based on supposed foretellings? Is Psalm just a poetic book, not speaking of Christ to say in the least?
Help.
The reason I am here is because I have recently begun a research project on the historicity of Jesus Christ and would like to gather my sources and intellectual knowledge before I start to produce anything.
First off I will be asking questions to help gather a perspective of those that came from the background culture of Judaism, obviously Christianity evolved from Judaism, but some of the claims the critics are making are made as a direct attack on Christianity alone, in addition, there are some theories to make an attempt to divert Christianity from Judaism as to suppose Christianity was a pagan cult in its early form.
Here are some extreme atheisitc websites I would like to address: http://www.thegodmovie.com/ and Ken Humphrey's http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/
I realize that the claims of popular culture are poor and ill-conceived, it would appear that the claims that the early Jews stole from the Zodiac (as implied by Acharaya S.) and that the early "Christians" stole from other Hellenistic mythological characters and used it to fabricate a messiah figure called Jesus.
As I would logically think, the greatest similarities of all come between Christ and the sun-god Mithras, but these similarities are the same as concluding that the Aztecs stole the architectual designs for their pyramids from the Egyptians, even though the Aztecs were an ancient society thousands of miles across the globe away from Egypt, yet, they had similar constructions in their empire as the Egyptians did in theirs, as well as the use of aqueducts, which were also used by the Roman Empire, quickly we would begin to notice that this theory would crumble simply because it has many, many, impossible assumptions that are being intertwined with each other to make it look as though indeed some "copying" was involved, the same can be said of Christ in comparison with Mithras.
So the second approach the critics enjoy taking is to destroy the foundations of Christianity and to "butcher" them, so to speak, after all, without the prophecies of a forecoming Messianic leader, it would definetly leave us to conclude noneother than to say that Christianity is another myth taken from earlier myths.
We'll cross out the books of Isaiah for instance to help better support the critical view, and we'll just say that the book of Psalms is not a book of anything prophetical, but a poetic book filled with songs of prayer, this would then say that most of what is foretold in the bible ("the piercing of hands and feet") is very "vague", especially when the virgin birth foretold in Isaiah 7:14 is not actually a virgin but a young woman, but of course, this has already been configured: http://www.carm.org/diff/Isaiah7_14.htm
Furthermore, exactly what are the differences between Christianity and Judaism? According to many critics, they say that modern day Hebrews do not believe in demons, Satan, and in hell, even though there is tons of those references in the Old Testament! False gods are demons, (king Solomon was an exorcist!) Satan ruins Job's life, the serpent tempts Adam and Eve (how can the serpent be figurative? I have seen references to demons being "serpents" it doesn't make any sense) so does Christianity match with anything that has to do with Judaism? Jesus seems to be telling his followers to worship the Jewish God, how is it that this is just another myth? Why would a group of Jews need something to believe in and borrowed from these 'mystery religions' and fabricated this person just so that they could gain power? Why would they need anything to "believe in" to begin with, when they already had Jehovah in the picture?
Alright, so now some of the critics are welling to bend this just a bit further and say it plainly: "Jesus existed", but what some of them won't do is say that he was executed or that he had any intent of creating a religion (which as far as I know, he didn't), or perhaps in better words, he never claimed to be the Son of God, and he didn't perform any wonderous miracles.
However even the Roman records confirm his execution:
Quote:
Tacitus 115 A.D.
The author of the denomination was Christ[us] who had been executed in Tiberius time by the Procurator Pontius Pilate. The pestilent superstition, checked for a while, burst out again, not only throughout Judea...but throughout the city of Rome also... [Tacitus, Annals, XV 44
The author of the denomination was Christ[us] who had been executed in Tiberius time by the Procurator Pontius Pilate. The pestilent superstition, checked for a while, burst out again, not only throughout Judea...but throughout the city of Rome also... [Tacitus, Annals, XV 44
And his considered divinity:
Quote:
Pliny the Younger 111 A.D.
...it was their habit on a fixed day to assemble before daylight and recite by turns a form of words to Christ as a god; and that they bound themselves with an oath, not for any crime, but not to commit theft or robbery, or adultery, not to break their word, and not to deny a deposit when demanded. After this was done, their custom was to depart, and meet again to take food... [Pliny, Epistle 97]
...it was their habit on a fixed day to assemble before daylight and recite by turns a form of words to Christ as a god; and that they bound themselves with an oath, not for any crime, but not to commit theft or robbery, or adultery, not to break their word, and not to deny a deposit when demanded. After this was done, their custom was to depart, and meet again to take food... [Pliny, Epistle 97]
It also seems that much of Christianity is just a revision of Jewish traditions: the Lord's Supper is a revision of Passover Eve, Jesus being a descendant of Judah made him the lion that represents Judah, and him being the lam of God, found in Psalms.
Mainly what are these differences, how can Christianity not be of Judaism? I understand that the Jewish people were expecting a political ruler to come forth and establish an earthly kingdom, Jesus spoke of a spiritual kingdom, are the Old Testament prophecies really "vague" or is it possible that so many atheists and Jews discard things and make it seem as though the authors of the Gospels went back and wrote a story based on supposed foretellings? Is Psalm just a poetic book, not speaking of Christ to say in the least?
Help.