JFJ Forums

There are people on here who I want to address. Here's why:

1. Elohim is a Trinity.
2. Only faith by grace and predestiny can save, and how predestiny is is thoroughly described in Romans and Ephesians.
3. First for the Jews, then the Gentiles, and Jesus the Christ was Y'shua HaMashiach. See Romans 1:16 and Romans 9-11, and the Gospels of Mattityahu, Yochanahn Mark, Luke, and Yochanahn ben Zavdai.
4. There is nothing wrong with celebrating Christmas and Easter if they are not meant as a pagan celebration or mix of Messianic Judaism and paganism. Read Romans 14.


Here's the particular people who need to hear each point:
1 and 4: Jack
2 and 3: David
2: Katarina
4: Nancy and others crying over Christmas and Easter

I don't know how many times it'll take to get across, but the Bible, Tenkah and Bri't Chadasha, says what Unitarians (meaning Jack and other anti-Trinitarians) and Roman Catholics who put Catholicism over the Bible (David, Katarina, romancatholic87, israelite87, and even folks in my family) seem to forget.

Goy can you elaborate on how predestiny can save?

2. Only faith by grace and predestiny can save, and how predestiny is is thoroughly described in Romans and Ephesians.

Romans 8
[29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
[30] Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Ephesians 1
[5] Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
[11] In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
[11] In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
[11] In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
[12] That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

predestined- to decide beforehand, determine beforehand, ordained

For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16
ESV

Did a little checking of my own....
1.Elohim the the plural Hebrew word meaning the Name of G*d has nothing to do any trinity ( a man made doctrine formed at Nicea by the newly created church of Rome)
2.Acts 2:38-39 gives the plan of salvation...Romans to Revelation is to the church that have been obedient to Acts 2:38
3.its what it says
4.People celebrate as the Holy Ghost guides them.  If your convicted by the Holy Ghost not to celebrate them then don't.

Maybe before you disparage what others believe or don't believe you should really check into it more
Now if there is a Trinity...show us who belive in ONE G*D what the name of the Father and Holy Ghost is...
Now the Father is a spirit not a person...The Holy Ghost is a spirit not a person...which blows your theory out of the water...

Maybe it is you who needs to study more and not Jack and those of us who know better.

We are commanded to seek our salvation with fear and trembling and allow the Holy Ghost to lead us into truth.
    

See Romans 9 and Ephesians 3.

Why don't you read Genesis 1-3 and Genesis 6-9? Read also John 10 and Paul's letters. The Trinity is proven in these books, as in "Let US make man in our image."




Why don't you read Romans 9 and Ephesians 3:14?




So, you're agreeing?




Read Romans 14.




You're telling me that I need to study when you came unstudied.
"We are commanded to seek our salvation...and allow the Holy Ghost to lead us into truth."
 

Dear brother Goy.
You address your post to me among others.
I have a few statements for you to consider. You say that I put Catholicism over the Bible. That’s naturally not how I see it. But the Bible is the heart of the Church. Indeed it came out of the Church, when the Church had already been long in existence and It was preserved by the Church. If you don’t recognize Church authority then neither can you recognize the canon that was agreed upon by the Church, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. If you say the Church was misled then you are making a liar out of the Lord who promised that death would not prevail against His Church. You would have me choose Catholicism over the Bible. But this is absurd. Catholicism is only a name that describes the teachings of the Church. This Church is the Bride of Christ. You cannot separate Jesus from His bride, and you cannot separate Bible from tradition. Yes.. you also have a tradition whether you recognize it or not. The question is, do you have the guts to ask who your authority is when it comes to interpretation. Your self? How comforting.. or what? There are 30,000 evangelical denominations in America alone, and only one Catholic Church that teaches not according to the spirit of the times or the individual hunch that plants a new church on every street corner and multiplies by division, sometimes calling fellow brothers damned. I want you to pray over some passages from the Bible. And I am not out to give you a rough time, but I wanna tell you that I have been an evangelical Lutheran for my whole life until some few years ago, and becoming a Catholic, on the basis of Scripture, I dared look into the claims of Catholicism and found that they were true.
"You are Kefas and on this rock I will build My Church" “I prayed for you Peter, and when you turn, then strengthen your brothers”.. "Guard my lambs.. be a shepherd to my sheep…guard My sheep”.  "The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth"..
Why did Jesus choose 12 apostles, my brother? ..if any interpreter is just as good as the other and the Bible just came falling out of the sky.. why the need for elders and councils and the laying on of hands by the first apostles for these ministries if all you need is your Bible.. all these things are written therein..  Try and look around and ask your self. You can start by asking: where are the words “Sola Scriptura” found in the Bible? In the Old Covenant the Lord had a threefold priesthood guarding the interpretation of His laws and decrees.. and Jesus even said: “Obey them because they sit on the Chair of Moses, but do not imitate them” let me bring to your attention that the concept Moses’ chair is not found explicitly in the OT, but Jesus still recognized this need for order and authority. The authority was there, even when the person holding the office was fallible, just as it is today with ordained priests and the chair of Peter. In the New Covenant He has not left us fatherless but has guided the Church according to His own promise. Even in times of distress and poverty in the Bride, the Bridegroom is ever faithful.
Predestination?… “And all mankind will see God’s salvation”
“Then came a man, sent from God, his name was John, he came to give testimony about the light in order that ALL would come to believe by him”. “And everyone who received Him He gave the right to be called Children of God” “But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself” Therefore it was by faith, so that it could be by grace, so that the promise could remain for all his descendants..” “Him who did not spare His son but gave Him for us all…”  etc. The claims of predestination is not only perverse but also illogical when you consider the whole work of salvation from the beginning. The only predestination there is.. and which I think you get mixed up, is the law that sin leads to death. And the one who denies Christ and remains in sin is determined to die and suffer damnation.
The Muslims believe that their god created some people with the intention to destine them for the eternal fires, from the beginning. Try looking at the wounds of Jesus and then look into His Eyes while telling Him that you believe in that kind of teaching.

Praised be the Name of Jesus <><

Baptistic:  GoyOfY'shua, would the following be what you mean here?  I think you do, but let me know your thoughts if you do not.

Ephesians 2: 1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; [...] 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 [...] hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) [...] 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.  8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:  9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

God makes our righteousness His responsibility.  Our sin is our responsibility; but God, because He loved us, sent Y'shua to bear our sin for us on the cross.  Y'shua is given (John 3:16); eternal life is given (Romans 6:23) through Y'shua; and even our faith is given us by God.

Predestination means more to those in Christ.  The doctrine of predestination is not the message for the unsaved; the gospel is.  Regarding predestination, God is shown to be absolutely sovereign in all things, including who He calls.  I think that is a good place to put the "period":  God is sovereign.  Following that, if a person is concerned whether he would ultimately be rejected by God no matter what he "does," remember, it's not by works (Eph. 2:9), and, Y'shua says, whosoever comes to Me, I will in no wise cast out (John 6:37).  Notice vv. 35-36 before that; it is important to believe on Y'shua, not just to listen to Him or think well of Him.

God's sovereignty:  Romans 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.  30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Consider that, first is God's foreknowledge and predestination before the world began; then God calling (and our gift of faith responds), then God justifying (by Y'shua), then God making us more and more like Christ.  Not by having a new ethnicity installed (by making us Jewish or non-Jewish), but by the power of the Spirit of God indwelling the believer.

God sovereignly called those people in the OT times--Adam, Noah, Abraham, and in NT times, His apostles including Paul ... all the way to you and me, if we have ears to hear.  The Spirit and the Bride say, come! (Revelation 22:17)

I said it was by faith, and predestiny is even relevant to the Gospel. That's why so many are confused about the Gospel: If anyone could just come to God, the bible would say so. But Romans 3 and 9 explain predestiny.

2 Timothy 2:15 (New King James Version)
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

How profoundly sad a thing it is to realize that those who have been born of God's Spirit don't recognize their own Father. That they've been deceived so greatly that they fail to recognize their own Father. It must simply brake His heart! My friend, were in Babylon and we haven't known it.

Have you any understanding what it means to have been born of God? What it means to have been born of the Spirit? To have been born again? Can you actually read this page and look Jesus in the face and tell Him that you haven't been born of His Father's Spirit? That you've been born of a third being?

Oh that we would reject what has been passed down to us and rejoice in the fact that we've been born of His Spirit. Children of God, born of His Spirit.

Brother, to have been born again means that you've been born of God's Spirit. That God is your Father! Men have been telling us lies for so long that we fail to recognize our own Father. We scorn people for not recognizing the day of His Son's visitation and yet we fail to recognize our own Father. We debate God's word with impunity and yet this infinitely holy being dwells in us, and we fail to recognize Him! Brother, if you don't believe me ask Him what the following means.

Luke 11:11-13 (New King James Version)
If a son asks for bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!"