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http://www.nsbible.org/pastor_not_founder.htm

The above URL shows (for those interested), that Bible Students are not affiliated with the Jehovah's Witnesses nor was Pastor Russell associated with them... As I said, I offer the Library for any that would desire a deeper knowledge of Scripture. "The deeper things"


2Ti 2:15 - Study -- Study to know what God would approve. Study the Revelation he has made. Study the nature of everything that we come in contact with, as to whether it is good or evil. R4838:2

Study the doctrine, study your course of conduct, study to shield yourself and others from error and from a worldly spirit. R3097:1

Study the Word; study to avoid error and to shun all foolish questions and profane and vain babblings. R4839:1, 3097:4

Make yourself thoroughly familiar with the truth, that you may indeed be a living epistle, known and read of all men. R5045:4

It would be unfair to make a judgment of this work without first searching through it with open mind...Smile

God bless all
One-called: Your doctrine states the following: 3) As he was the highest of all Jehovah's creation, so also he was the first, the direct creation of God, the "Only Begotten," and then he, as Jehovah's representative, and in the exercise of Jehovah's power, and in his name, created all things--angels, principalities and powers, as well as the earthly creation.

Christ was not created. That is an arianist doctrine which was supported by Charles t Russel. We should begin with the diety of my Messiah before we continue.
In looking at some of this and another related site that is pro-Russell, it would remain that, regardless of opinion about his connection to the Jehovah's Witnesses cult, these studies also would be "...not those of evangelical Christian theology" as indicated by Rich in the other thread.
Baptistic Wrote:

In looking at some of this and another related site that is pro-Russell, it would remain that, regardless of opinion about his connection to the Jehovah's Witnesses cult, these studies also would be "...not those of evangelical Christian theology" as indicated by Rich in the other thread.


Baptistic,
Pro-Russel doctrine sounds as "arianist" as Unitarianism. Think about that, you and Jack.
Joshua Wrote:

One-called: Your doctrine states the following: 3) As he was the highest of all Jehovah's creation, so also he was the first, the direct creation of God, the "Only Begotten," and then he, as Jehovah's representative, and in the exercise of Jehovah's power, and in his name, created all things--angels, principalities and powers, as well as the earthly creation.

Christ was not created. That is an arianist doctrine which was supported by Charles t Russel. We should begin with the diety of my Messiah before we continue.


Not for the sake of debate or arguing...I post the following...

1.) Not my doctrine...Rolleyes

2.) Everyones Messiah

3.) A question...is it your belief then that by the word "deity", Y'shua is God himself? You say He was not created... Then by that statement you affirm that Y'shua was his own father and Yahweh is His own son. Scripture says God is known by those things he has made (Romans 1:10...he made man in His own image (male and female). Then by that reasoning he must be his own mother, and also his own daughter. If Y'shua is God, then you would have to agree that he was ruling the entire universe while yet a fetus in Mary's womb.

Joh 6:46  Not that anyone has seen the Father, except he who is from God. He has seen the Father.

In this statement, if Y'shua was God, then his face to face statement to those questioning him here would be a lie.

If God became a man in the person of Y'shua, then he would cease to be God.

Joh 5:30  I can of myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous; because I don't seek my own will, but the will of my Father who sent me.

In this statement...if Y'shua is God, then the following must be true...
1.) God can do nothing of himself
2.) God has two distict wills (one as God and one as a man)
3.) God SENT himself to die for us.

This all tends to the belief of a triune "Godhead"...a pagan doctrine

God is Spirit

Joh 4:24  God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

Luk 24:39  See my hands and my feet, that it is truly me. Touch me and see, for a spirit doesn't have flesh and bones, as you see that I have."

If Y'shua is God then the above two statements are lies.

Num 23:19  God is not a man, that he should lie, Neither the son of man, that he should repent: Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not make it good?

This statement says God is not a man...neither the son of man. Then if Y'shua is God, Moses lied here.

If the deity of Y'shua means he is God....then all of us must be God according to the following statements.

Psa 82:6  I said, "You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High.

Joh 10:34  Jesus answered them, "Isn't it written in your law, 'I said, you are gods?'  
Joh 10:35  If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture can't be broken),  
Joh 10:36  Do you say of him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You blaspheme,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God?'

The primary meanings of the Hebrew word ben and the Greek word uihos are..."one born" , "child" , "builder of the family name"...if Y'shua is God, then God was born...is a child, and is a builder of His family name...all foreign concepts.

If Y'shua is God, then Mary really is the "Mother of God" as stated in Catholicism...

Mat 19:17  He said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but one, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Mar 10:18  Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except one -- God.  

Luk 18:19  Jesus asked him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good, except one -- God.

The above statements of Y'shua show that he did not consider himself God.

In the following scenario:
Luk 3:21  Now it happened, when all the people were baptized, Jesus also had been baptized, and was praying. The sky was opened,
Luk 3:22  and the Holy Spirit descended in a bodily form as a dove on him; and a voice came out of the sky, saying "You are my beloved Son. In you I am well pleased."

If Y'shua was God, then it must be true that he anointed himself with Holy Spirit, and that he spoke to himself ...this would constitute a grand display out of character with the Sovereign ruler of all things.

Heb 4:15  For we don't have a high priest who can't be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, but one who has been in all points tempted like we are, yet without sin.

If Y'shua is God, then he never sacrificed anything and is not a faithful High Priest... further, He was never tempted in the wilderness nor was he tempted in all points like we are...because GOD cannot be tempted!

1Co 15:27  For, "He(GOD) put all things in subjection under his feet." But when he says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that he is excepted who subjected all things to him.
1Co 15:28  When all things have been subjected to him, then the Son will also himself be subjected to him who subjected all things to him, that God may be all in all.

If Y'shua is God then he put all things in subjection to himself and in turn will subject himself to himself so that he may be all in all....this is ludicrous.

Joh 5:26  For as the Father has life in himself (immortality), even so he gave to the Son also to have life in himself.

The statement above in John shows what God did after Y'shua paid the ransom price... if Y'shua was God he would already have life in himself.

Heb 1:3  His Son is the radiance of his glory, the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself made purification for our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 1:4  having become so much better than the angels, as he has inherited a more excellent name than they have.

If Y'shua is God, then he would not have to become better than the angels or inherit a name more excellent than the angels have...he would already have had it.

Heb 1:6  Again, when he brings in the firstborn into the world he says, "Let all the angels of God worship him."

In the above statement Y'shua is called the firstborn and yes it is true that he was Mary's firstborn... but why in the Jewish law was the firstborn important? Because Y'shua was the firstborn of all creation. Since God cannot be seen, He created an offspring...His only begotten son. the IMAGE of God. That is why he could say if one had seen him he was seeing God (The closest anyone could get to actually seeing God) An image is not the real thing, but a picture of the real thing. Men on earth have sons in their own likeness and in their own image...

Exo 13:1  Yahweh spoke to Moses, saying,
Exo 13:2  "Sanctify to me all of the firstborn, whatever opens the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of animal. It is mine."

Truly God is not the perpetrator of such an illogical doctrine as the "trinity"...Even the Jews did not expect God to become a man and save them...they expected God to send a deliverer...which he did.

Be Blessed Smile



Baptistic Wrote:

In looking at some of this and another related site that is pro-Russell, it would remain that, regardless of opinion about his connection to the Jehovah's Witnesses cult, these studies also would be "...not those of evangelical Christian theology" as indicated by Rich in the other thread.


Please give me some examples of "evangelical Christian theology"...

In your opinion, which Christian organization is the right one?

Be Blessed Smile
Joshua Wrote:

Christ was not created. That is an arianist doctrine which was supported by Charles t Russel. We should begin with the diety of my Messiah before we continue.


Scripture says otherwise by Y'shua's own words...

Rev 3:14  And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

This by his own word states he is the "beginning (first, primary) creation of GOD"

There is no doubt that Y'shua was a god, but nowhere is there support that he is THE GOD.

If one were to use the following as proof that Y'shua is God, the Greek word translated "by" is more properly translated (through) but even more accurately (after)...dia
dee-ah'
A primary preposition denoting the CHANNEL OF AN ACT; through (in very wide applications, local, causal or occasional). In composition it retains the same general import: - AFTER, always, among, at, to avoid, because of (that), briefly, by, for (cause) . . . fore, from, in, by occasion of, of, BY REASON OF, for sake, that, thereby, therefore, X though, through (-out), to, wherefore, with (-in). In composition it retains the same general import.


On which of the scriptures do you derive the conclusion he was not created?

Be Blessed Smile
Joshua Wrote:

One-called: Your doctrine states the following: 3) As he was the highest of all Jehovah's creation, so also he was the first, the direct creation of God, the "Only Begotten," and then he, as Jehovah's representative, and in the exercise of Jehovah's power, and in his name, created all things--angels, principalities and powers, as well as the earthly creation.

Christ was not created. That is an arianist doctrine which was supported by Charles t Russel. We should begin with the diety of my Messiah before we continue.


I replied to this and have yet to see it....I have not ignored it, just so that is clear...Smile I must have ruffled someones feathers...I will not repost as it took some time...wasted time it seems.

Be Blessed. Smile

P.S.  If the post does by some miracle appear, my deepest apologies.
Baptistic Wrote:

In looking at some of this and another related site that is pro-Russell, it would remain that, regardless of opinion about his connection to the Jehovah's Witnesses cult, these studies also would be "...not those of evangelical Christian theology" as indicated by Rich in the other thread.


I also replied to this post...again I say, I did not ignore it. And again I say...If by some miracle it does appear; My deepest apologies.

Be Blessed Smile
Pastor Russell was a liar, under oath, in a New York Supreme Court of Law, on more than one occassion.

He was forced to admit he could not read Hebrew...had never gotten off the boat to visit Hawaii...and was having voracious fornication while his wife beat vehemently upon the bedroom door.  This nut used the Great Pyramid and a Masonic Lodge mentality of mathematics to explain Bible prophecy.  And on and on we can go.  

The best concise disproval of Charles Russell is a pre-1990 copy of Walter Martin's "Kingdom of the Cults" (the modern version has been sabotaged by Haanegraf and others).

What ever Russell disciples have to offer...thanks for the offer, but no thanks.
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