JFJ Forums

In the old testament there are over 115+ prophecies concerning Jesus the messiah- the "odds" of one Jesus of Nazareth, son of Joseph the carpenter fufilling all these (just 115)- which he did- were a trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion to one. If anyone would like to discuss these including Isaiah 2:  2-4 , I would be glad to send you a list with Chapter and verse.
1 trillion = ( 1,000,000,000 ) 10[size=small]12times 13 power

Odds of A Jewish Male with a mother and father descended from David in that time period born in Bethlehem does narrow things, yes, but interesting as the googleplex thing might be (10 followed by 100 zeroes if a google and a googleplex is 10 to a google) , personally I think the natural odds for some were 0 The Odds of that person being cricified narrows it further

In the end the odds of the blind seeing, the lame walking and the dead being raised and walkin out of His tomb - without a miracle odds are exactly 0 and similarly the odds of the Jews valueing G-d at 30 pieces of silver as fortold by Zechariah - odds are 0

The odds are still 0 and it takes more than sometome hitting the messianic lotto, takes a miracle

Good point but hard for everyone to comprehend.

How about my favorite?

What are the chances of the ten most famous prophesies being Jesus out of any particular person ever born?

The chances for it to be Jesus are the same as picking one silver dollar off the ground anywhere in Texas, with Texas being covered by silver dollars and that one being Jesus.  Picking the correct one at random.  

Maybe I did not explain it that clearly but you get the idea.

Steven Green

What are the odds of someone raising HIMSELF from the dead?

Steven Green

Acts 3:18 But those things  which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, He hath so fufilled.  (KJV)

But what God foretold by the mouth of all the prophets that His Christ should suffer, he thus fufilled. (Revised standard)

But God was fufilling  the prophecies that the Messiah must suffer all these things.   (Living Bible)

But God has thus fufilled what He has made known beforehand through the lips of all the prophets, that His Christ was to suffer. (Modern Language Bible)

The problem with this argument is that there is no independent proof that the prophecies ever existed in the first place, and no independent proof of fulfillment.

There may be a small number of prophecies used by Christians that would be considered genuine by Jews (Jews that practice Judaism), like having Davidic descent, but of course it is disputed that Jesus would have had Davidic descent because of the virgin birth.

With something like Jesus being born in Bethlehem, well how do we know that he actually was? How do we know that the gospel writers didn't make it up? The birth narratives in Matthew and Luke don't even look to be consistent with each other!

The prophecies were written and they were fulfilled. People don't seem to realize the significance of that. So many things were written about Messiah before He was even born. The Magi came from another country to see Him. They believed that He would be born and they were rewarded by seeing with their own eyes the fulfillment of all the prophecies!

Hallelujah!

Baruch HaShem!


Shalom!

Start by asking Him, He is not dead.

In your opinion, and that is fine.

All I wish to point out is that the argument, "Jesus must be the Messiah because he fulfilled so many prophecies", doesn't work. And it doesn't work because Christians can't prove that the prophecies were ever "written" in the first place, and they can't prove fulfillment.

The problem lies not in arguments but with faith. Jesus Christ spoke of faith and the blessing that follows faith in his FINISHED work. Salvation =Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ's atoning death burial and resurrection plus or minus nothing.
There are over 5,800 greek manuscripts
(copies with original autographs) extant today. The concensus of conservative biblical scholars who have studied these are in majority agreement there are no other historical biographical works with such documentation as Matthew Mark Luke and John's gospels and the revelation of Saint John. These were all written within 60 to 100
years of Christ's death. Best historical sources cite Pauls writings as early as 55 A.D. Process I suggest a book- "The Case for Christ" by Lee Stroebel who was a professing athiest and professional journalist who gave his life to Jesus after interviewing the leading authorities of Biblical conservative scholarship.

Here is a good scripture:
From the gospel of John

[29] Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Shalom aleichem