JFJ Forums

      


      RobB Wrote:

"Exactly right!  I've been a Christian all my life but only recently took a good look at why Jews don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah.  After months of study it became obvious to me that it is not in any way possible that Jesus was the Messiah, specifically because he didn't fulfill ANY of the prophesies, aside from being Jewish.  I now plan to convert to the true religion of Judaism.BTW, hardly anybody on the web has anything good to say about Jews for Jesus."


EmmaG Wrote:

"The list goes on and on.  I would be impressed if Jesus fulfilled the actual Messianic prophecies along with these other so-called prophecies.  But the fact is, he didn't.  And the fact also still remains that these prophecies are not really prophecies."
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"Go and tell John the things that you see and hear:

"The blind see and the lame walk; the lepers are cleansed and the
deaf hear; the dead are raised up and the poor have the GOSPEL
preached to them.
  "AND BLESSED IS HE WHO IS NOT OFFENDED BECAUSE OF ME!"

MATTHEW 11:5-6

In that day the deaf shall hear the words of the book,
and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity
and out of darkness.
The humble also shall increase their joy in the LORD,
And the poor among men shall rejoice
In the Holy One of Israel.
ISAIAH 29:18-19

Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened,
And the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.
Then the lame shall leap like a deer,
And the tongue of the dumb sing...
ISAIAH 35:5

[SEE ISAIAH 61: 1-11]

SHALOM!
  RAB  
  

Ray,

Read my topic on the other forum, "why I don't believe in jc".

It shows who the real blind ones are.

   " Maybe the nations that the Bible mentions who will turn to the Jews will be turning to the Messianic Jews?"
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Yes, many peoples and strong nations
Shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem,
And to pray before the LORD.

"Thus says the LORD of hosts: 'In
those days "TEN MEN" [True Men]
from every language of the nations
shall gasp the sleeve of a Jewish, man
saying,
"Let us go up with you, for we have heard
that G-D is with you.'"
ZECH. 8:22-23

Now these "10 Men" are true men of G-D. The remnant of the
10 lost tribes of Israel. They became Spartans after the fall of
the Kngdom of Israel in BC 608. We only know them today by
their confession in the the LORD JESUS CHRIST.

"How lovely are your tents, O Jacob!
Your dwellings, O Israel!
Like valleys that stretch out,
Like gardens by the riverside,
Like aloes planted by the LORD,
Like cedars beside the waters.
He shall pour waters from his
  buckets.
And his seed shall be in many
  waters.

His king shall be higher than than
Agag,
And his kindom shall be exalted.
NUMB. 24:5-7


SHALOM!
  RAB    
  

Ray,

If you would actually read the verse in context you would see your error.

Where does it say "Now these "10 Men" are true men of G-D. The remnant of the 10 lost tribes of Israel."?

Don't put words in G-d's mouth. This is what G-d actually says;
"22 Yea, many peoples and mighty nations shall come to seek HaShem of hosts in Jerusalem, and to entreat the favour of HaShem.

23 Thus saith HaShem of hosts: In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold, out of all the languages of the nations, shall even take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying: We will go with you, for we have heard that G-d is with you.'

The "nations" are the Gentile nations. Everyone who is NOT a Jew.

Don't quote something unless it is from the Hebrew Bible.

These verses are my true reason for coming to this forum. IMHO, it will be Messianic Jews who return a pure speech to G-d's people and lead us into a pure form of worship. I believe it will be their understanding of how worship under the physical covenant translates into the spiritual covenant that will lead both Jew and Gentile into a pure understanding of the Gospel of Yeshua. Tanachreader's explanation of how Yeshua's life was an image of the nation of Israel, G-d's firstborn son, is an excellent example.

Scriptural support is important, but understanding that the completed sciptures are alive and have both body and spirit is the beginning of understanding on a level that hasn't been seen since the apostles and the early church, IMHO.

Peace

Peacemaker,

You can read into the verse however you want. That is when things start getting dangerous. Everyone has an opinion, nobody has the facts.

The verse mentions nothing of a "messanic jew". There was no such thing at the time of Zechariah.

Types and Shadows which we do not beleive in.


If this is about Jews who believe in jc;
Why would G-d only be with messanic Jews? Are they not with xtians as well?

Yes, God is with Christians; that is why Messianic Jews are Christians.  Christian simply means identified with Christ.  The word Christian is unfortunately understood by many Jews (and gentiles) to be a fleshly identification.  It is not correctly understood to be a gentile identification; it is a spiritual identification.  That is why in Revelation Jesus identifies some Jews as "of the synagogue of Satan" (or Paul, "not all Israel, which are of Israel")--Jew is likewise a spiritual identification.  Note that Jesus Christ, as Almighty God, apparently considers a genuine Jew to be by call and design of God someone that identifies with the Truth.  And since Christ is the Truth, a genuine Christian (though he be of another nation, a gentile) is likewise identified with the Truth, that is, Christ.  So Jew, or Israel, is on the very highest spiritual plane in relationship to God as he abides in the Truth, who is Christ, Messiah--Jesus of Nazareth.  Thus, Christian is a proper identification for both Jews and Gentiles who abide in the Truth.

Zechariah 8:23  Here is the dispensationalist understanding:  In those days refers to the Millennial Kingdom time, when Messiah (whom believers at JFJ and JFJ forum recognize and believe to be Jesus of Nazareth aka the Lord Jesus Christ, Y'shua Messiach) will return to the Mount of Olives to stop the imminent destruction of Israel and the earth, destroying His enemies with the word of His mouth, and will begin His eternal reign on the earth.  With dispensationalism, this verse is not about the Church today coming to a Jew and saying, let's worship; it is the saved of the nations coming to the Jew in that day and saying, let's go worship your King who did not cast you away but in fact has brought you again to Himself and is with you Himself even now.  Ten men I think means a whole number, that is, all the nations will do this.  Actually they will be required to do so.

In our times today, the Church's invitation is for both Jew and Gentile to believe on the resurrected Messiah and to look forward to His return.  Jesus said we are to worship Him in spirit and in truth, and that God seeks such to worship Him.  It is all about Christ: the sacrifices, the Temple, the Glory.  He is risen, as He said, and He is coming again.

RE: Types and shadows which we do not believe in.

The precedent is clearly established in the prophets. They were often given physical acts to perform and then given the greater spiritual meaning G-d wanted them to convey to the people. Perhaps you are already aware of that.

Who you are referring to when you say "we do not believe in?" What sacrifice do you make for sin these days? Haven't you created your own types and shadows in order to maintain worship without a temple or priesthood? Also, have you considered how the light of the moon is simply a reflection of the true light to come?

Peace

searchmyroots says:

"The verse mentions nothing of a "messanic jew". There was no such thing at the time of Zechariah."

"Types and Shadows which we do not beleive in."
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What does ZECHARIAH have  to say about it??

"And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of
Jerusalem the Sprit of grace and supplicaton; then they wil look
on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him, as one
mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a
firstborn."
"In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem...

ZECHARIAH 12:10-14

SHALOM!
  RAB