JFJ Forums

peacemaker678 said: very astutely

"I guess we know which circumcision matters most...no matter where we look in the scriptures"
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And again;
"Circumcise yourselves to the LORD,[YAHWEH]
And take away the foreskins of your hearts,
You men of Judah and ihabitants of Jerusalem,
Lest My fury come forth like fire,
And burn so that no one quench it,
Because of the evil of your doings."
JEREMIAH 4:4

SHALOM!
  RA
  

Ray,

You said;
"Indeed!  a righteous conversion. Thats exactly what it takes."


SMR:

Show me in the Hebrew bible where it says to convert to believe in a messiah.

Show me in your bible where jc says to convert to xtianity.


The Hebrew bible explains what a convert is.

AMEN!!! What an awesome example of a physical action (type) being moved forward to a greater spiritual meaning even before the New Covenant began. It can't be said any clearer than that. Thanks!!

Ray, do you see a development from physical to spiritual to heavenly taking place? I know flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven. I see a physical temple...then the description of the spiritual temple found in Ephesians 2:19-22 and 1 Peter 2:3-6...then there is John's Revelation which makes referrences to the heavenly temple. Of course there are sacrifices for each temple...Yeshua himself being the heavenly sacrifice.

There are other examples such as the physical rest of the sabbath followed by the spiritual rest from the works of our flesh and the faith in a heavenly rest to come.

By the testimony of two or three shall every word be established. It may be wishful thinking on my part, but it seems that YAHWEH would prove himself true and prove his promises true by the way he has presented his word to two groups pf people who were not a people prior to his chosing to reveal himself to them.

Of course that brings us to the nation of Israel...G-d's people by physical birth...then their are those who are Christian or Messianic who are G-d's people at the time of their spiritual birth or re-birth....and there is the promise in 1 Corinthians 15 that we will one day bear the image of the heavenly, and of course there are already heavenly beings who are G-d's people.

This is a way of looking at scripture that fascinates me even though I'm usually called crazy for speaking about such things. Thanks again for adding Jeremiah 4:4 to my list of scritpures relevant to this type of study.

Peace

I'm new to the group but I've been following this thread and it's quite amazing. It's hard to grasp the significance of this: there are 300 very specific prophecies about the first coming of the Christ, the Messiah, in the first testament. THREE HUNDRED! And every one of them was fulfilled literally.

The prophecies of the Messiah were confusing to the Jewish scholars, who had difficulty reconciling the seemingly conflicting passages of the Suffering Servant and the Conquering King. They went to great lengths to explain these "discrepancies," including the assertion that the Suffering Servant was allegorical, representing suffering Israel. We now see that the conflicing visions of Messiah actually referred to two different comings of the same Messiah.

There is a great deal we can draw from this. Perhaps most important, it tells us that, since the prophecies of the first coming were literal and NOT allegorical, we can conclude quite definitively that the prophecies that reference His second coming will also be fulfilled literally.

I have taught the book of Revelation to small church groups a number of times over the years, and I always begin with an object lesson that I took from a book I read years ago: I toss a quarter into the air, catch it, and ask someone in the group to call it. They usually call "heads," and then I ask, "What are the odds that this will be heads?" Of course, the answer is about 50/50. Then I ask what are the odds that we'll get heads twice in a row, three times, 50 times, 100 times, 300 times?

The answer of course, is that the odds become so great it is beyond chance. Then I point out that 300 prophecies about the first coming were literally fulfilled, and I point to several examples that have already been covered in the earlier messages of this thread. This alone gives amazing credibility to the authenticity of Jesus' claims to be the Son of God, and to the veracity of Scripture.

I usually end the study by going through a list of prophecies that relate to the Second Coming of Messiah that have been fulfilled within the last 100 years, with a huge emphasis on the restoration of national Israel. To emphasize the significance of that, I quote Benjamin Disraeli, a British statesman of the 19th Century, and also a coverted Jew. When he was asked to name the single most important thing that proves the Bible to be true, his answer was simle: The Jew. That is truer today than it has ever been. I believe the time is short, beloved.

Blessings in the name of our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ!

300 x 0 = 0

Zechariah 11:

11:10
I took my staff No'am and snapped it in two, "in order to break my covenant, which I made with all the peoples."

11:11
On that day when it was broken, the most miserable of the sheep who paid attention to me knew that this was indeed a message from ADONAI.

11:14
Then I snapped in two my other staff Hovalim [bound together], in order to break up the brotherhood between Y'hudah and Isra'el.

Was it types and shadows or was your covenant broken that day? You have no temple because that covenant is over. How long did G-d ever let himself be without a temple? 2000 years and you still can't re-build that temple because there is a new temple being built with Yeshua as the chief cornerstone and the prophets and apostles ( all Jewish) being the complete foundation upon which we are being built into a temple that covers the earth ( Ephesians 2:19-22 ). I'm standing in the outer court right now!! G-d desires mercy and not sacrifice.

Since you have no covenant without accepting the covenant G-d has made through his Son Yeshua I would encourage you to search the scriptures again. It is impossible to make your own covenant with G-d while forsaking the One he offers.

Peace

a) You don't need to convert to beleive in Messiah, you should readily accept Him that the (YOUR) scripture leads you to.

b) You won't find it because "Christianity" is JUDAISM fulfilled. The only reason we need make distinction is that non-Messianic Jews do not accept their own Messiah. Otherwise, and in the future, we would/will all be called "His people".

Isa.53
[3] He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Luke.4
[21] And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Mark.13
[13] And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

The people of Qumran (apparently the Essene sect) had access to several text-types of the Scriptural text: In essence, all Hebrew text-types represented by the MT as well as those behind the Septuagint and the Samaritan text, served the sect in its study and worship.

Quoted from source cited by another member of the forum. Thanks

Ray,

You said;
"Indeed!  a righteous conversion. Thats exactly what it takes."


SMR:

"Show me in the Hebrew bible where it says to convert to believe in a messiah.

Show me in your bible where jc says to convert to xtianity."


The Hebrew bible explains what a convert is.
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"For G-D did not send His Son into the world to condemn
the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does
not believe is condemned already, because he has not
believed in the name of the only begotten Son of G-D.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into
the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because
their deeds were evil."
NKJV JOHN 3:17-19

For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given:
And the government will be upon
    His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty G-D,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of His government
    and peace
There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over
His kingdom.
To order it and establish it with
judgment and justice
From that time forward, even
    forever.
The zeal of the LORD of hosts will
    perform this.
[ISAIAH 9:6-7]

SHALOM
RAB