JFJ Forums

HNV Therefore leaving the doctrine of the first principles of Messiah, let us press on to perfection -- not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works, of faith toward God,

NIV Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,



would you say church services or sunday school, or bible study is the place best suited for this going on to maturity, pressing on to perfection that is mentioned.

I have such a hunger for this, as you may find that I post so many things that re in me on this forum, and cannot find a contemporary outlet in my church or in the bible student, here, where I am.

I am not one to reject Christ, yet I have time and time again had to 'confess Christ my savior, born of a woman, died, risen, and the only salvation'.

I am not one to denounce the Bible, in part or on the whole I love the word of God, and certainly have had to defend not reading the KJV more than once, oh, my and if you quote another version, I even get the "uh well's", when I volunteer to read the verse presented at the bible study, because my version is the NLT.

I am not one to turn from Jesus, but I do reject movies, statues, cards, pictures, crucifixes, and other 'likenesses' as unneeded to my understanding of God incarnate, and that in His giving of the Holy Spirit I have the indwelling source to know Him;  His promise to me.  Well, I have even had to ask up front if the church services I will attend are geared to linking images with praise and worship of the Name above all names...because it really bothers me...

I fear for a generation that is to come that cannot distinguish between::

(((((Revelation 13:13-15
13 He did astounding miracles, such as making fire flash down to earth from heaven while everyone was watching. 14 And with all the miracles he was allowed to perform on behalf of the first beast, he deceived all the people who belong to this world. He ordered the people of the world to make a great statue of the first beast, who was fatally wounded and then came back to life. 15 He was permitted to give life to this statue so that it could speak. Then the statue commanded that anyone refusing to worship it must die.))))

and:: a series of icons that are plastered on several monitors around a church auditorium, and even at special occassions a volunteer dresses 'the part' and is a live image in concert with several Worship and praise hymns that state in so many words:

Open the eyes of my heart LORD
I want to see you high and lifted up...
Holy, holy, holy...

There is no rock, There is no god Like Our God
No other name Worthy of all our Praise

Come now is the time to worship
come now is the time to give your heart.
One day every tongue will confess You are God
one day every knee will bow

See from His head His hands His feet
Sorrow and love flow mingled down
did e'er such love and sorrow meet
Or thorns compose so rich a crown.

In other words, I fear for the tingling of the senses to the point that there is no difference ((at first)) between christian worship and the anti-christ.  I cannot tell you the total number of times I have been told that 'we don't worship' those icons...it isn't idolatry.

SO WHY IS IT ONLY JESUS THAT IS AN ICON IN CHURCH/WORSHIP?  

I HAVE NO CLUE, MUCH LESS A NEED FOR THE LIKENESS WE MIGHT CHOOSE FOR QUOTING JOHN, PETER, LUKE, MICAH, JEREMIAH...THE LIST GOES ON...AND HONESTLY,
((maybe we fear this would begin idolatry))
I FEAR FOR OUR HOUSES OF WORSHIP...THAT WE READ AND UNDERSTAND THE MEN OF THE BIBLE WITHOUT HELP OF EXTERNAL ICONS, YET WE CRY IGNORANCE OF HOW TO INTERPRET THE WORDS  OF JESUS WITHOUT THE USE OF AN ICON....

Can we go on to maturity, soon???
Can we go on to perfection, soon??

The Holy Scriptures for me, have given us witness after witness that has become an 'eye-witness' of these things...

Isaiah 8:2
Isaiah 43:10,12
Isaiah 44:8,9
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:32; 3:15; 5:32; 10:39; 10:41; 13:31
Hebrews 12:1
and my personal favorite:
2Peter 1:16-18

16 For we were not making up clever stories when we told you about the power of our Lord Jesus Christ and his coming again. We have seen his majestic splendor with our own eyes. 17 And he received honor and glory from God the Father when God's glorious, majestic voice called down from heaven, "This is my beloved Son; I am fully pleased with him." 18 We ourselves heard the voice when we were there with him on the holy mountain.

I long to come into the presence of the Living God?  Becoming an eye-witness of Him, and never refusing to be His ambassador!

The time is coming for His return.

bye for now,
kimberly

Heb 6:1  Therefore leaving the doctrine of the first principles of Christ, let us press on to perfection -- not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works, of faith toward God,

Therefore -- In chapter 6-10 St. Paul points out the danger of falling back and away after we have become Christians.

Leaving -- Being "weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts." (Isa. 28:9)

There should come a time in the experience of every healthy growing child of God, when he should be able to leave the foundation doctrines.

Having them firmly established and settled in mind.

Not in the sense of abandoning them, but of allowing them to stand as tried and proved foundation stones.

We should not have to learn all of these things over and over again.

It is a mistake to suppose that God's will is accomplished in the mere preaching of the first principles of the doctrines of Christ.

The principles -- The foundation doctrines.

The first principles.

Elementary principles--milk.

Must be known to all who belong to "God's secret order."

Doctrine of Christ -- Those doctrines by Jesus and his mouthpieces, the apostles.

Teachings of the Bible.

Relating to the Church and the world, and God's blessing for each; to sin and its forgiveness; the terms, and basis and hope of that forgiveness, and everlasting life obtained through resurrection.

The doctrines are only a means to an end, and not the end itself.

Let us go on -- Advance--building on the foundation which no one can do until they have accepted and obeyed the first principles.

Grow in grace and knowledge.

In full confidence in the foundation, we may proceed with our building.

For this we are pressing along, forgetting the things that are behind.

With the wonderful Bibles now at our command and with helps for Bible study, what manner of Christians ought we to be--in faith, love, obedience and courage! A gradual change. The babe cannot be expected to grow up to manhood instantly.

We would think a child either very stupid or careless in his studies to remain several years learning the multiplication table, how to add, subtract and divide. He ought to leave the first principles and go on.

Not forget the first principles or consider them errors or something to be despised, but remember and use them and add the higher branches.

Unto perfection -- A thing not of the past but of the future.

Go on growing in grace and in the knowledge of the truth.

Cultivate our characters and endeavor to grow more like our Lord.

Work out our own salvation as New Creatures.

Going on to complete the building of our faith.

We need to be nourished, strengthened, developed to perfection, to the condition of manhood. Full consecration is a mere beginning of the matter and not the end of it.

The perfection which will be attained only in the resurrection.

If we go no further than the first principles, we will never reach perfection.

Not laying again -- Not halting to tear up, or to try a different foundation.

Not needing to dig them up and lay them over again.

If a man, after laying a foundation for a building, should always be digging it up and turning it over and trying to fit the stones in some other way, how soon would the building be completed?

The foundation -- A broader foundation, surely, than most Christians build upon.

Not to be forever laying the foundation of Christian character.

There must come a time, and that before we begin to build, when we feel sure that the foundation is good and properly laid.

Of repentance -- By repentance.

From dead works -- All works are dead if without faith.

Faith toward God -- Faith in the plan of God for redemption.

No Kimberly, because Christian maturity is simply dependency on  the Lord.  To the degree that a child of God trusts and depends upon Him, that is how mature he or she is.

While you might learn more about the scriptures and enjoy fellowship with other believers in bible studies and  by attending church,  maturity is not something that we accomplish for ourselves.  

The maturity of a child of God is the work of His Holy Spirit.  And the goal of His work is to bring us into full dependence upon Him. This is sanctification. The Holy Spirit accomplishes this  through trials,  crises or different circumstances in our lives. As He brings us through these, we get to see His love, provision, and faithfulness in action and we trust Him more.  We get to know Him better.  We realize that He is true to His promises, and our fears begin to fade, and then we experience the Sabbath rest  that Christ promised us.  

This is what God's request of Abraham, that He sacrifice Isaac, was all about--to bring Abraham into a deeper trust and dependence on the provision of the Lord.  This was about sanctification and not justification.  The name Abraham gave the mountain attests to this. Gen 22:14

A child of God who is mature might not attend church regularly, be able to quote scripture, or be involved in all kinds  of church activities or works (though some might do all those things),  but he or she will exhibit the peace of God and the fruits of the Spirit.  When you are around he or she, you will sense that this person is at rest and moving in the liberty that is ours in Christ.

So be at peace Kimberly and wait on the Lord.  He has started a good work in you, and He will complete it.  Just keep the conversation going with Him wherever you are.  Our Lord is in complete control.  He is building His Body, and  His children will not be deceived.  He promised!  And He’s faithful!

This verse immediately came to mind when I read your post:   Matt 5:6
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. (NIV)

The Lord sees the longing and hunger of your heart, and  He will fill you!
Be blessed.

Oh, Dear Child of God;

How much I long to tell you the very day to day of the LORD's mighty provision in my life.  I know from my very marrow that He has given to me every good thing, in His time.  I cannot remember a time I asked for something, in His name, that He did not give to me.

I would give this knowledge to anyone!  But it is not possible to give away...only to witness, and testify.  So that those whose eyes are blind and ears are deaf may ...for a season... not see or hear the Word.

That is the greatest crisis you mentioned that we might face, to grow in maturity.  I think it is even easier to face the dead, than to face the blind and deaf.

thank you for your post.  truly.
bye for now,
kimberly

Amen! Our Lord is good!


Agree with you Kimberly. I used to struggle with that too--witnessing to someone and wanting so hard for them to believe the truth.  After all, what our Lord has to offer is such a bargain!

Sometime ago though, I became a little more at peace about just waiting on the Lord to give the increase once I had shared with someone about Him.  Though, it is so hard to step back and wait on the Lord, especially with relatives.    

God bless!

Hbr 6:9   Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things—things that belong to salvation.

Hbr 6:10   For God is not so unjust as to overlook your work and the love that you showed for his sake in serving the saints, as you still do.

Hbr 6:11   And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness to have the full assurance of hope until the end,

Hbr 6:12   so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hbr 6:13   For when God made a promise to Abraham, since he had no one greater by whom to swear, he swore by himself,

Hbr 6:14   saying, “Surely I will bless you and multiply you.”

Hbr 6:15   And thus Abraham,[fn2] having patiently waited, obtained the promise.

Hbr 6:16   For people swear by something greater than themselves, and in all their disputes an oath is final for confirmation.

Hbr 6:17   So when God desired to show more convincingly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeable character of his purpose, he guaranteed it with an oath,

Hbr 6:18   so that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us.

Hbr 6:19   We have this as a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul, a hope that enters into the inner place behind the curtain,

Hbr 6:20   where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.

I see the need for such a selfless worship of the Saviour. I see that his will is accomplished in our lives. When my eyes began to be opened I was in prison- from there to homelessness, from there the knowledge I gathered from the scriptures made me feel special. There is no reproach we bare Christ has not bourne. I thank Him. I praise Him!