JFJ Forums

Acts 15, Romans 3:31, and other verses seem to say, "Jewish and Gentile Christians don't have to follow, but would find benefit in, following the Mosaic Law as part of their faith and lifestyle." Do you, as a Messianic Jew or Gentile, folllow the mitzvot established in the Torah? If so, do you think that Messianic Jews and Gentiles should follow the Mosaic Law?

No, no one who is in Christ should keep the Mosaic Law. They may if they want to (we have liberty in Christ); but why should we?  That which is perfect has come--namely Christ.  

Besides the Mosaic Law was for Jews only, and it is now obsolete because the Cov of Law is obsolete. Jer 31:31, Heb 8.8

Christ  instituted a new covenant for all men (including Jews)and gave us a new commandment which encapsulates all of the moral law found in the OT.

John 13:34
34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.   (NIV)

Rom 13:9-10
9 The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
(NIV)

I see your point, but "the Mosaic Law was for Jews only?"  "[A]nd it is now obsolete because the Cov of Law is obsolete?" Isn't the same God for the Jews the God for the Gentiles? Remembered, the law was fulfilled, not done away with. So, "They may if they want to", but "obselete?"

Cor5: Take it down a notch. The brother is asking an opinion.        

Goy: Initially the council of Jerusalem decided the matter but even that decision may skewed through todays religious systems.

I see no conflict in serving the spiritual intent of the law and that which was delivered up through Moses. "Love the Lord with all your heart soul and stregnth" {Hillel taught as much}. The law specified relationships with our holy creator and our fellow man. It gave us a standard of ethics and morals. It protected the weak of society and outlined a patriarcal system which was and still is needed. Believers aren't called into an anti-nomian covenant but niether are we called into the gymnastics of man made rituals.
If our actions prove to becoming a stumbling block for Jew or gentile in coming to the Father through Messiah I would say that it violates "the law". Mosaic law provided a means to approach a holy God and the display that holines to his brethren.
Everything that the law called for is to be found in Messiah and we keep the intentions of the law when we follow His plan in our lives. Thats the difference between testimony and testiphony.
Should we follow the Mosaic law? I think that we do when we embrace the teachings of Jesus as well as when we participate in the sacrificial system given through His life, death, ressurection, and lest we forget ascention.
This a great time of year to be discussing this especially as we enter thw Shavuot season when we celebrate not only the giving of the law at Sinai but the giving of the Holy Spirit that we might keep the law as pointed out by beacon in Jere 31/31. Now, while the Spirit convicts and leads us into all righteousness I look forward to a day when {as the prophet says} "No one shall teach his neighbor saying know the Lord for they shall know Him from the least to the greatest" Now, we only see in part but one day as "crystal clear gold" {something that is foreign to this creation}... Perfectly transparent holiness!!

Wow.

Do you not know that G-d Himself is unchanging and eternal?

Do you not know that the covenants that G-d has established will reamine forever, neither added to nor destroyed?

This was G-d's promise to his followers.  He promised it to Noah when he made his very first covenant with us - which is for all humankind, not just the Jew's.  (It is no coincidence that the laws the apostles later chose for followers of Jesus mirror the Noahide covenant.  They already knew that these ways were acceptable to G-d!)

G-d routinely says throught the Tanakh that his promises are eternal period.  That they do not change.

This is a sticky wicket for Christians.  Jesus both came as a fulfillment of the Laws, so he says, and also chastised this very Law at the same time.

Paul later goes on to say that the only real use of the Law is to show sin, but that one was not to follow the Law for they could not.  That they were instead saved by grace.  (Of course, even whether Paul really understand the Law at all is still open for debate but that is outside the scope of this question.)

So according to Paul - Christians are not to follow the Law.

But G-d promised his covenant to be eternal.  They were not to change or end. Regardless of the Messiah.  In fact, under the Messiah the world was to know G-d and follow the Law while living in peace!

This is one of the reasons Christianity and Judaism cannot be comingled.  You cannot believe that you are under an everlasting covenant and then say that G-d needed to add to it.

Goy, your questions are so important, because so many believers are asking them and want to know the truth, that I’ll try to answer them as directly as I can from the scriptures.  It is so critical for Christians to realize once and for all that they are under one and only one covenant--the New Covenant--so that they may enter into the Sabbath rest of Christ.   This does not mean that we become anti-OT Law, but that we recognize that no one, not even the Jews who were the only ones  legally under Law before, is bound by it now.  The Old Cov is obsolete for all.



Yes, God made the Cov of Law  with the Jews only-- only with those Jews who were alive at the time.  Though God  did specify that the Jews  should pass on His laws to their children. (Deut 4:9)  Here is the way Moses put it to his people at the time:

Deut 5:3
3 It was not with our fathers that the LORD made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. (NIV)

Paul also confirms that the Old Cov was with the Jews only when he says in Rom 2:14:

14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, (NIV)



Yes,  the Old Cov became obsolete when the New Cov was instituted on the cross with Christ’s blood. (Luke 22:20, Heb  8:8-13)  When a covenant is obsolete, the laws, stipulations, or requirements which are an integral part of the covenant become obsolete also.   The Book of Hebrews explains this in detail.



Yes, absolutely.  But in selecting a small group of people out of mankind, namely the Jews,  God had in mind to show them and  the rest of us that  man could not keep the Law.  It was not necessary for God to impose the Old Cov on everyone.  God already knew what was in man. (John 2:25) Instead, He used a sampling of mankind, so to speak ,  for His purpose.   Paul puts it this way:

1 Cor 10:11
11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come. (NIV)



I believe this  is the verse you are speaking of:

Matt 5:17
17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. (NIV)

What  Jesus is speaking about here is the Law or decrees that were written “about him”  in other words, His mission.  Jesus put it this way:
Luke 24:44
44 He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms." (NIV)

In introducing a New Covenant, Jesus makes the old one and all its requirements obsolete.  Hebrews explains that in detail as I said before.

Sorry, this is a bit long.

We Are No Longer Under The Law

You got it gba1988, though actually gentiles were never under the old covenant given at Sinai--it was made with the Jews only. For them the old covenant has been obsolete since Jesus Christ ratified the new covenant on the Cross.  

But the good news is that Jesus Christ made provision for all men, including the Jews, under the new covenant.



The Lord bless you!

I agree to a point in respect to feast days...however we are under the Law of the Ten Commandments even more so than before....
If a man think about sleeping with a woman even if he doesn't physically come in contact he is still guilty of adultery.
If a man hate his neighbour...he is still guilty of murder etc
however unlike the Mosaic Law where a priest had to give an offering for our sin we have an advocate....Jesus Christ as long as we repent of our sin and turn away from it.