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Doctrinally, very far, but i have some good friends who happen to be a Roman Catholic and we dont talk much about doctrines we always talk about what we can do to our community. Dont treat your neighbor as if he's a Catholic or an Orthodox Jew just live with him according to his humaness and then you'll realize that your as close as hand in hand wether hes a Catholic, a Hassid, A Sunni or whatever...
GoyOfY'shua Wrote:

Seekmosttoprophesy Wrote:

I believe that Messianic Judaism is what Christianity should be. There are many churches that have already become Messianic. The older and larger churches are slower to make the changes that are needed whether mainline Protestant, Reformed, Lutheren, Orthodox or Catholic.

Generally speaking, the older and larger they are, the harder they fall in the good sense of the word in sincere humility.

What we need is for the truth to be known.

Shalom!


Well, I'd look at Acts 15. We're not required to follow all 613 mitzvot. We only have four requirements that branch from two- "love God...and love your neighbor as yourself."

I believe Messianic Worship has content that should be in every church whether it is a Bible study or the keeping of Passover which is what Communion symbolizes. Going through the motions of the feasts of Israel is a learning experience. God speaks to us through those things. It's not that we have to do them, it can be enjoyable.

I have been in Bible studies and I have participated in the Passover Seder, for example. It can be a meaningful experience. It is all to show the relevance of Messiah. It is a rich history and heritage.

Either one is fine with me. I enjoy the Bible studies and I enjoy the feasts of Israel.
Going by what I know from the Orthodox church (which has the same doctrine as the Catholic), when an infant is 'baptised', the Godparent literally accepts Christ and rejects Satan on behalf of the baby. This is scripturally unfounded, as nobody can accept Christ on behalf of anyone else. We all must make the decision to believe for ourselves. But without the ritual of infant baptism, Catholic babies are left without any form of blessing.

Messianics, as I have observed, solve this problem by a special ceremony in church to bless the children. All the youngsters of the congregation gather at the altar and a large cloth is held over them and blessings are pronounced over them. The ceremony is performed regularly, so that the children will be blessed many times by the time they come of age. It is a beautiful, perfect ritual. Just because a child is not old enough to reject the wrong and choose the right (Jesus), this does not mean they cannot be blessed. I don't think a child who dies in infancy without being 'baptised' will go to hell; Jesus said, in essence, that children have guardian angels and are always in the presence of God. For Him to say that the kingdom of God belongs to them, He is saying they are pure enough to enter it and also, that they don't need to do anything to enter the presence of God. If they did, He would have told us.Smile
Quote:I don't think a child who dies in infancy without being 'baptised' will go to hell; Jesus said, in essence, that children have guardian angels and are always in the presence of God. For Him to say that the kingdom of God belongs to them, He is saying they are pure enough to enter it and also, that they don't need to do anything to enter the presence of God. If they did, He would have told us.

Hi Angelike,

I do not think this is true.Our opinions matter very little,and that is why God gave us his word.Study it to show yourself approved of God,and let scripture interpret scripture.The Spirit of life opens our eyes that we can see the truth.God is not saying that ALL children are pure to enter heaven.Some will not do so for they are sinful.Let us see what the scriptures say about children.


Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. Psalms 51:5-7


The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;

Which will not hearken to the voice of charmers, charming never so wisely.Psalms 58:3-51


For the Unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the Husband: else were your children unclean, but now are they Holy. 1 Corinthians 7:14

In Matthew 19:19, Mark 10:14 , Luke 18:16,God tells us,suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.This does not mean that they clean /holy.  He is telling us that believers are to be humble as children.

helidoni.
Seekmosttoprophesy Wrote:

I believe that Messianic Judaism is what Christianity should be. There are many churches that have already become Messianic. The older and larger churches are slower to make the changes that are needed whether mainline Protestant, Reformed, Lutheren, Orthodox or Catholic.

Generally speaking, the older and larger they are, the harder they fall in the good sense of the word in sincere humility.

What we need is for the truth to be known.

Shalom!


jews have a new mountian and a new temple. why go back to the old mountian and the old temple? because its traditionally jewish?

dont do it! dont be a backslider! you are forward in christ jesus and backwards is the wrong direction.
Seekmosttoprophesy Wrote:

GoyOfY'shua Wrote:

Seekmosttoprophesy Wrote:

I believe that Messianic Judaism is what Christianity should be. There are many churches that have already become Messianic. The older and larger churches are slower to make the changes that are needed whether mainline Protestant, Reformed, Lutheren, Orthodox or Catholic.

Generally speaking, the older and larger they are, the harder they fall in the good sense of the word in sincere humility.

What we need is for the truth to be known.

Shalom!


Well, I'd look at Acts 15. We're not required to follow all 613 mitzvot. We only have four requirements that branch from two- "love God...and love your neighbor as yourself."

I believe Messianic Worship has content that should be in every church whether it is a Bible study or the keeping of Passover which is what Communion symbolizes. Going through the motions of the feasts of Israel is a learning experience. God speaks to us through those things. It's not that we have to do them, it can be enjoyable.

I have been in Bible studies and I have participated in the Passover Seder, for example. It can be a meaningful experience. It is all to show the relevance of Messiah. It is a rich history and heritage.

Either one is fine with me. I enjoy the Bible studies and I enjoy the feasts of Israel.


that faith is enjoyable is not a reason to accept or reject. if you like the jewish tradition, you can get any history book but yu cant let it into christs church because it will have a corruptive influence. christ didnt try to save the temple or the traditions. if he had, then i can agree you. but it was all tossed out and new was given and i think that while we should never forget the heritage, we should forget the past IN PRACTICE of faith.
Angelike Wrote:

Going by what I know from the Orthodox church (which has the same doctrine as the Catholic), when an infant is 'baptised', the Godparent literally accepts Christ and rejects Satan on behalf of the baby. This is scripturally unfounded, as nobody can accept Christ on behalf of anyone else. We all must make the decision to believe for ourselves. But without the ritual of infant baptism, Catholic babies are left without any form of blessing.


no angel dear, a godparent is present at baptism to make the vow that if anyrthing that happens to the childs parents, that they will assume the responsibility of raising the child in christ. you dont need scriptural support to make this vow.



Messianics, as I have observed, solve this problem by a special ceremony in church to bless the children. All the youngsters of the congregation gather at the altar and a large cloth is held over them and blessings are pronounced over them. The ceremony is performed regularly, so that the children will be blessed many times by the time they come of age. It is a beautiful, perfect ritual. Just because a child is not old enough to reject the wrong and choose the right (Jesus), this does not mean they cannot be blessed. I don't think a child who dies in infancy without being 'baptised' will go to hell; Jesus said, in essence, that children have guardian angels and are always in the presence of God. For Him to say that the kingdom of God belongs to them, He is saying they are pure enough to enter it and also, that they don't need to do anything to enter the presence of God. If they did, He would have told us.Smile
[/quote]

stick with your church angel. this messianic ritual may be quite beautiful but it is MORE unfounded than the one u have.

children do not go to hell if they are not baptized and your church doesnt teach you this. dont believe me? check it up! they dont go to heaven, but they dont go to hell either.

also, infants dont gather at the altar. unless the messianics have the power to invoke the holy spirit, their prayers might not be successful. in the church, even a priest doesnt have this power. SAMS think that they have it, they can hurl it like a baseball??

your church has the altar ritual which confirms the oath of your parents and godparents which you mentioned above. it is called confirmation. this is not an infant but a child who is old enuf to speak for themselves. the first (infant) baptism is by water, this confirmation is the baptism of the holy spirit.

speaking of the holy spirit:.....

in my church which im a member forty years there was a woman who passed out and fell to the floor in the pew any time the priest mentioned the holy spirit. to this day i could never figure out if she was a fake or something really was going on. i always wondered, is that a good thing or bad thing? one day she went down and the people rushed to her aid and the priest giving the service said, " dont worry about her, she does it alot. she will be okay."

id swear something fishy was going on but i remembered a young girl in my grade school years that did the same thing. every time the holy spirit was mentioned, it was like someone turned off her switch. has anyone else heard of such a thing?
The baptism of infants:  CCC 1250-1253

Born with a fallen nature ( original sin), children also have need of a new birth in Christ.  The grace of salvation is now placed within a infants soul, and the parents and god parents then pledge to bring this infant up in a christian home, so that when the child reaches the age for the sacrament of confirmation,( where he accepts Christ as his Lord) he then completes or fulfills the baptismal grace given to him at birth.

Baptism is the sacrament of faith.  But faith needs the community of believers.  It is only within the faith of the Church that each of the faithful can believe.  The faith required for baptism is not a perfect or mature faith ( any child being baptised can confirm this, they are just in the beginning stages), but the grace given to that infant or child is the grace of the life of Christ.  Who would want to deny their child of this??

Robin
helidoni Wrote:

Quote:I started another thread asking if anyone does see any similarities in the Catholic Mass to the Jewish faith.

I like to make a correction here.You can not talk of anyone's faith, but Christ's faith.The scriptures are clear abut this.

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law,, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be [color=red]justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.Galatians 2:16

A man is not justified by his own faith or his own work, but by the faith of Christ.

How can you call faith yours,if it is a gift of God?

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:[/color]: Ephesians 2:8

THE FAITH WE HAVE IS A GIFT FROM GOD.No such thing as a Gentile or Jewish faith.

helidoni.



Yes, faith is a gift, but a gift is something we must either accept or reject.  By the way, the way in which we live is our accepting or rejecting, see Matthew 25: 31-46.

So, it is my faith in Christ that will save me,  my accepting of his gift, which is freely given to  me....


robin
Backwards is the wrong direction. Y'shua said to do this in remembrance of Me... as often as you do it. As often as we keep "Communion" which is a remnant of the Passover, we are to keep the command of the Law in remembrance of our Lord. Every Church that I know of, except perhaps the Salvation Army or some other group, keeps the command of the Law of Moses by observing Communion. Y'shua said that we have no part with Him if we do not keep it (in the spiritual sense). Y'shua also stressed keeping the commandments, His commandments which seem to require more than the commandments of the Law. We don't keep the Law of God less, we keep it more and His commandments are not burdensome.

Shalom!
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