JFJ Forums

Thank you for your post Ripley.  You have made your opinions clear in this and in other threads.  Perhaps others will be led to different conclusions.  I suspect many of our Jewish brethren perusing this forum do not see their faith as “tradition of men, contorting scripture, unfounded doctrine”.  Instead, maybe they are less judgmental and merely see their faith as differing from yours.  Perhaps they will be more open to these similarities than you are.

BurningBush – I see you disagree with my post.  Are you of the opinion that Catholicism is of the Devil?  If this is based on doctrinal reasons then you must feel the same way about the Orthodox and Anglican churches as well.  Is this true?  If so, you’ve made some pretty serious accusations about a rather large number of Christians.  We are all entitled to our opinions despite the ignorance from which they are formed.

I believe these similarities can be expected but not because of mimicry.  I would use words like “continuity” and “fulfillment” and I think many Hebrew Catholics, especially those coming from Messianic Judaism, would agree.

But why do you choose to give us a mythical story that cannot be proven rather than deal with the material of my post?  Let’s discuss these similarities in detail rather than sidestepping the topic with fables from a friend of long ago.


(By the way, is this Mel Tari the same “prophet” and “miracle worker” who was convicted of fraud in a California court?  Sounds like a real trustworthy source.  Here’s the Christianity Today article: http://www.ctlibrary.com/ct/1994/august15/4t950b.html   It kinda makes you wonder why others are so quick to believe anti-Catholic stories – perhaps this too is the work of “HaSatan”???)

The classic definition of irrational is; refusing the let the facts interfere with your opinion. Several posters on here much more learned than I in church history have gone out of their way to present the facts pertaining to the gross errors of the RCC, and yet you are stalwart in defending the RCC and their doctrines. I am fully persuaded that the RCC was not established by the Spirit of G-d, and as such I can boldly proclaim deliverance to the captives, as that leaves only one other possible origin.

And as for Mel Tari, I have no idea what has befallen him in the 20 plus years ago that I met him, but I do know the anointing when it is present, and the anointing of G-d was on him at that time. I take no pleasure in his falling, if in fact, that is an indisputable fact, and given the state of the court systems in this country, I'd say only G-d knows that for sure.

wkirscher,
dude....
Y'shua did not have an opinion.
We are led of the spirit not church dogma.

I just want to point out how much I can agree with this sentiment, but really has little to do with my question.
It seems to me that there is a great deal of speculation going on here. If you accept the cannon of scripture that was basically put together by the RCC; how can you find such fault with the RCC?
I never see a mention of the Ebionites or Essenes. The Essenes were linked to more than Judaism, but many speculations involve John the Baptizer coming from this sect. From what little we know, the Ebionites seem to be the first adoptionists that also maintained Jewish practices and worship. We have none of their writings, only know of them from their proto-orthodox opponents that became the RCC, and they were trying to show them as heretics. There is much we don’t know, and much of what we think we know of the many early practices were written by those trying to condemn them. What other groups are completely lost? A lot of writings that we may never see, unless we find something hidden away, were destroyed.
Much of this criticism seems like the misreading of G-d’s will, or requires further study. One thing that is undeniable, is that for all of the persecution of the Jews throughout  history, they succeed in far greater ways than their small numbers could ever hope too without intersession.

I chatted with a Catholic that said the Psalms were not considered as
an evidence that a person is ok to go straight to the Lord with their confession.

I disagree with what he said.

Forgiveness from others is what God asks, because He also said, we
are breaking His law. David said "Against thee only have I sinned".

Who has the power to forgive sins? Is it not the one you sin against?

First, the Head does, and then through the NT, the body does. "Whatsoever sins you remit, they are remitted."

In actuality, when we pray for healing is the same as remitting sin, which is why He said, "Mt 9:5 - For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?", of one sick of the palsy.

And which is why the "priests" taking the right of remitting sins away from the body is such a travesty, because it robs the body of the authority given them by Yeshua, and keeps them from taking their blood bought place and growing up into the Head. And since the "priests" are out of divine order and pattern in the first place, the anointing is not present to heal, so the body stays sick. Blessings....

You can ask your friend forgiveness if you wrong them but when it comes to sin as to who has the power to erase sin from one life that is only God.

Back to the baptism of the baby.....didn't Phillip say that the one thing that hinders one to be baptized is believing with all your heart? How can a baby believe??? Seems to me that baptizing someone who doesn't or can't believe is against scripture. I think that if it were soo important that a baby be baptized in water then there would be a scripture that CLEARLY indicated this occurance, and there is NOT one. I believe babys go to heaven when they die because of what David said in 2 Samuel 12 (however, nothing was said about this baby being baptized in water; and this particular baby was a product of sin and was still worthy to go to heaven). There are many things I don't agree with with the RCC, but I won't go into all of that. From the overall picture, Catholics and Judaism seem strikenly opposite (belief in Jesus); but once one sees the rituals, coming to someone other than Jesus (Father/Rabbi),etc. it seems strikenly similar.

Krisi -where does scripture say everything must be clear from scripture?  This requirement is a Protestant man-made tradition.  Neither Jews nor the Messianic Jews of the 1st century had this requirement.  Faith/baptism is a both/and.  Evangelical protestant man-made tradition forces it to be an either/or.  The early Church practiced infant baptism when "enitre households" were baptized.  Nowhere in scripture is a person refused baptism because of age.  Nowhere in the early church writings was infant baptism ever rejected.  You should seriously consider questioning the man-made traditions that started after the Reformation and get back to early Christianity before the Reformation and Sola-Scriptura caused all of this confusion and division.

Hmmmm...where do I start?? I have soo much to say. Ok, lets see.
Proverbs 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. Matt. 24:35
Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matt. 5:18
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you; neither shall ye diminish ought from it. Deut. 4:2
Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever. Psalm 119:152
The word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalm 119:160
The scripture cannot be broken. John 10:35
For I testify unto every man that hearth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall ADD unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall TAKE AWAY from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Rev. 22:18-19
For thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. Psalm 138:2
The apostles wrote thru the Holy Ghost...this is who Jesus demanded to go preach the word and preserve the word..which they did...you don't go by any other NOR do you add your own to it..
This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. We have also a more sure word of prophecy...holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1;17-19,21
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