07-14-2007, 12:45 PM
07-18-2007, 01:43 AM
jewpoet Wrote:
Who is that Son referred to in the book of Proverbs?
...snd the name of that SON?
Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what [is] his name, and what [is] his son's name, if thou canst tell?
The first part is talking about God....
The second part is asking about the son...
This is answered in Isaiah
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace
The son is Jesus
The name of God the father is Jesus
unless someone believes there is two fathers.
07-19-2007, 02:43 AM
prophet Wrote:
The name of God the father is Jesus
unless someone believes there is two fathers.
Your idea of Jesus being His Father is ridiculous.
Re:1:6: And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Re:2:27: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Re:3:5: He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Re:3:21: To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Re:14:1: And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Prophet, after all the posts I believe you have never made a comment on
Isaiah 48
07-19-2007, 04:48 AM
Questions for prophet
Is Jesus His own Father?
If Jesus' will and the Father's will were identical, then why did Jesus express the desire to escape the cup but resigns Himself not to His own will, but the will of the Father?
Was Jesus praying to Himself in the Garden of Gethsemane?
If Jesus was praying to the divine side of Himself, then isn't He still praying to Himself?
Why was Jesus not saying, "Not My will, but MY will be done?" if there is only one person and one will involved when He was praying in Luke 22:42 & Matt. 26:39.
If baptism is essential for salvation, then what happens to someone who repents of sin, accepts Jesus as Savior, walks across the street to get baptized but is killed by a car. Does he go to heaven or hell?
If he goes to heaven, then baptism isn't a requirement is it?
If he goes to hell, then faith in Christ isn't sufficient to save him is it?
Since the Bible teaches us that Jesus is in bodily form now (Col. 2:9), then how does the Oneness Pentecostal person maintain that God is in the form of the Holy Spirit? Also, when Jesus returns, will He return in His body? Will God's form then revert to the form of the Son at a later date?
If God is only one person, why did Jesus say in John 14:23, "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." If God is only one person, why does Jesus say, "we"?
Who is the Lord in Ge:19:24: Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
Who is "US" in Genesis
Who is the Ancient of Days who the Son of Man(Jesus) coming in the clouds(Resurrection and accension to the Father)
Dan:7:9: I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
Dan:7:13: I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Who is speaking in Isaiah 48 who is sent.
If Jesus is the Father than why does Jesus say "we will come unto him" and "our abode"
Joh:14:23: Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Is Jesus His own Father?
If Jesus' will and the Father's will were identical, then why did Jesus express the desire to escape the cup but resigns Himself not to His own will, but the will of the Father?
Was Jesus praying to Himself in the Garden of Gethsemane?
If Jesus was praying to the divine side of Himself, then isn't He still praying to Himself?
Why was Jesus not saying, "Not My will, but MY will be done?" if there is only one person and one will involved when He was praying in Luke 22:42 & Matt. 26:39.
If baptism is essential for salvation, then what happens to someone who repents of sin, accepts Jesus as Savior, walks across the street to get baptized but is killed by a car. Does he go to heaven or hell?
If he goes to heaven, then baptism isn't a requirement is it?
If he goes to hell, then faith in Christ isn't sufficient to save him is it?
Since the Bible teaches us that Jesus is in bodily form now (Col. 2:9), then how does the Oneness Pentecostal person maintain that God is in the form of the Holy Spirit? Also, when Jesus returns, will He return in His body? Will God's form then revert to the form of the Son at a later date?
If God is only one person, why did Jesus say in John 14:23, "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." If God is only one person, why does Jesus say, "we"?
Who is the Lord in Ge:19:24: Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
Who is "US" in Genesis
Who is the Ancient of Days who the Son of Man(Jesus) coming in the clouds(Resurrection and accension to the Father)
Dan:7:9: I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
Dan:7:13: I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Who is speaking in Isaiah 48 who is sent.
If Jesus is the Father than why does Jesus say "we will come unto him" and "our abode"
Joh:14:23: Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
07-19-2007, 10:00 PM
Your idea of Jesus being His Father is ridiculous
So your saying Isaiah got it wrong... He says the name of the son shall be everlasting father...I didn't say it so your saying there are two fathers....God the Father and Jesus the Father must be going by what Isaiah said.
Jesus the man was praying to the spirit of God...but i guess cause you say so God is tied to the way you think.
God Himself said there is no Saviour beside Him....which means God Himself is he Saviour.
As to baptism....if its not a requirement then why did Jesus,his disciples....the disciples of John and all those that converted or accepted get baptised. Why does Paul say we are buried with him in baptism?
As to what happens to a man after death..since you don't know any more than I those things I leave to God.
The man on the cross went to Paradise which only God can permit and this was Jesus acting in His role as God the Father.
Because He is talking as a man....everyone who Has the Holy Ghost infilling has Jesus Christ in them. His body is the veil
Hbr 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Jesus is the veil that protects us from the Glory of God since no flesh can stand in his presence
"Us" in Genisis could be the host of heaven since they are made in God's image....living spirits...could also be the Royal "US" as the the monarchy use.
Ancient Of Days is Jesus..since that is the name of God where is the mystery.
Isaiah 48? what is the mystery there?
Now a question for you...
What is the name of the father in Proverbs 30:4.?
What is the name of the son whose name will be Everlasting Father?
God says there is no Saviour beside Him....to have 2 other persons
that would mean there is a Saviuor beside him which would make God a liar..
So...are you calling God a liar?
There is One God ...His Name is JESUS....How He chooses the interact is up to Him....But like I said there is only One Person in the Godhead and that is Jesus....whether you agree or not.
All Israel know that God is ONE....They will NEVER accept Him as 3 persons.
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Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye
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So your saying Isaiah got it wrong... He says the name of the son shall be everlasting father...I didn't say it so your saying there are two fathers....God the Father and Jesus the Father must be going by what Isaiah said.
Jesus the man was praying to the spirit of God...but i guess cause you say so God is tied to the way you think.
God Himself said there is no Saviour beside Him....which means God Himself is he Saviour.
As to baptism....if its not a requirement then why did Jesus,his disciples....the disciples of John and all those that converted or accepted get baptised. Why does Paul say we are buried with him in baptism?
As to what happens to a man after death..since you don't know any more than I those things I leave to God.
The man on the cross went to Paradise which only God can permit and this was Jesus acting in His role as God the Father.
Because He is talking as a man....everyone who Has the Holy Ghost infilling has Jesus Christ in them. His body is the veil
Hbr 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Jesus is the veil that protects us from the Glory of God since no flesh can stand in his presence
"Us" in Genisis could be the host of heaven since they are made in God's image....living spirits...could also be the Royal "US" as the the monarchy use.
Ancient Of Days is Jesus..since that is the name of God where is the mystery.
Isaiah 48? what is the mystery there?
Now a question for you...
What is the name of the father in Proverbs 30:4.?
What is the name of the son whose name will be Everlasting Father?
God says there is no Saviour beside Him....to have 2 other persons
that would mean there is a Saviuor beside him which would make God a liar..
So...are you calling God a liar?
There is One God ...His Name is JESUS....How He chooses the interact is up to Him....But like I said there is only One Person in the Godhead and that is Jesus....whether you agree or not.
All Israel know that God is ONE....They will NEVER accept Him as 3 persons.
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Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye
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07-20-2007, 09:52 AM
jewpoet Wrote:
Who is that Son referred to in the book of Proverbs?
...snd the name of that SON?
Book of Proverbs Chapter 30:3-4
07-21-2007, 01:42 AM
Does scripture bear out my position that Jesus and the Father are one and the same?.... I believe so....
Isaiah wrote:
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace
Now if the Son is Jesus then Isaiah is saying he will be called everlasting Father....therefore the Father is Jesus....Scriptural
Jesus said
Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father
Jhn 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive
Jesus said I am the Father....if you have seen me you have seen the Father means I am the Father. The disciples got it how come you can't
Why does it make a distinction when talking of the Father and the Holy Ghost and the Son as if they are distinctly different? As SeekstoProphecy has pointed out 3 offices conducted by One Person...Jesus.
Why does Jesus pray to the Father? He is showing us how to pray when we are in dire circumstances....He is praying as a man NOT as God whom HE is.
God so loved he world that HE gave His only begotten son.....God created a vessel in which HE dwelt....God didn't send someone else to die for our sins....HE CAME HIMSELF.
Is the Holy Ghost Jesus? YES...does scripture bear this out?...YES
Jesus gave up the ghost....everyone agrees that Jesus was Holy...therefor the ghost he gave up was the Holy Ghost.
Jesus said the Father and he would send a comforter in His Name...well the name of he son is jesus scripture says the son will be called everlasting Father...so the Father's name is Jesus... the name of the Comfortor?....Jesus....One Person...God Almighty in the flesh...whom we see no longer in flesh but worship in spirit.
Our God and Saviour....Jesus Christ
Our God and Father......Jesus Christ
Our God and Holy Ghost...Jesus Christ
One God...One Saviour....One Person....Jesus Christ
If I say my friend and colleague Tanachreader....am I talking of 3 or talking of 1 person? 1 of course....then why when scripture says ;
1 Timothy 1:1
PAUL,AN apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour,and Lord Jesus Christ,which is our hope;
You see 2 where I see 1...Paul could have said "by commandment of Jesus Christ"...He didn't because he was showing that God and JEsus were on and the same....Jesus Christ...As he has said MORE than once
"Biside me there is NO Saviour"...Jesus is the Saviour of the World...God is the Saviour...ergo...Jesus is God.. and God is ONE.
Why does He say WE and US....HE is King of Kings....Queen of England uses WE and US whenever she speaks officially is not Jesus the King of Kings higher than her? HE oversees the government of heaven and earth...You saying that He as ONE can't use the Royal terminology?
Jesus will return in His resurrected body as will those that die in Him or are Raptured with him...no one know what we will look like at that time.
We willl come...Our abode...
since the fullness of the Godhead is in the Person of Jesus Christ his fullness will come and abide in us.
Jesus the Father (whom he is) is talking about the Man he will become and is sending.
Now if you disagree with me fine...
but as I asked before and you never answer...
What is the Name of the Father ( with scripture to back it)
What is the Name of the Holy Ghost? (with scripture to back it)
Surely if you have seen the trinity as you claim they at least told you their names
Isaiah wrote:
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace
Now if the Son is Jesus then Isaiah is saying he will be called everlasting Father....therefore the Father is Jesus....Scriptural
Jesus said
Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father
Jhn 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive
Jesus said I am the Father....if you have seen me you have seen the Father means I am the Father. The disciples got it how come you can't
Why does it make a distinction when talking of the Father and the Holy Ghost and the Son as if they are distinctly different? As SeekstoProphecy has pointed out 3 offices conducted by One Person...Jesus.
Why does Jesus pray to the Father? He is showing us how to pray when we are in dire circumstances....He is praying as a man NOT as God whom HE is.
God so loved he world that HE gave His only begotten son.....God created a vessel in which HE dwelt....God didn't send someone else to die for our sins....HE CAME HIMSELF.
Is the Holy Ghost Jesus? YES...does scripture bear this out?...YES
Jesus gave up the ghost....everyone agrees that Jesus was Holy...therefor the ghost he gave up was the Holy Ghost.
Jesus said the Father and he would send a comforter in His Name...well the name of he son is jesus scripture says the son will be called everlasting Father...so the Father's name is Jesus... the name of the Comfortor?....Jesus....One Person...God Almighty in the flesh...whom we see no longer in flesh but worship in spirit.
Our God and Saviour....Jesus Christ
Our God and Father......Jesus Christ
Our God and Holy Ghost...Jesus Christ
One God...One Saviour....One Person....Jesus Christ
If I say my friend and colleague Tanachreader....am I talking of 3 or talking of 1 person? 1 of course....then why when scripture says ;
1 Timothy 1:1
PAUL,AN apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour,and Lord Jesus Christ,which is our hope;
You see 2 where I see 1...Paul could have said "by commandment of Jesus Christ"...He didn't because he was showing that God and JEsus were on and the same....Jesus Christ...As he has said MORE than once
"Biside me there is NO Saviour"...Jesus is the Saviour of the World...God is the Saviour...ergo...Jesus is God.. and God is ONE.
Why does He say WE and US....HE is King of Kings....Queen of England uses WE and US whenever she speaks officially is not Jesus the King of Kings higher than her? HE oversees the government of heaven and earth...You saying that He as ONE can't use the Royal terminology?
Jesus will return in His resurrected body as will those that die in Him or are Raptured with him...no one know what we will look like at that time.
We willl come...Our abode...
since the fullness of the Godhead is in the Person of Jesus Christ his fullness will come and abide in us.
Jesus the Father (whom he is) is talking about the Man he will become and is sending.
Now if you disagree with me fine...
but as I asked before and you never answer...
What is the Name of the Father ( with scripture to back it)
What is the Name of the Holy Ghost? (with scripture to back it)
Surely if you have seen the trinity as you claim they at least told you their names
07-21-2007, 02:18 AM
prophet Wrote:
Your idea of Jesus being His Father is ridiculous
So your saying Isaiah got it wrong... He says the name of the son shall be everlasting father...I didn't say it so your saying there are two fathers....God the Father and Jesus the Father must be going by what Isaiah said.
Jesus the man was praying to the spirit of God...but i guess cause you say so God is tied to the way you think.
God Himself said there is no Saviour beside Him....which means God Himself is he Saviour.
As to baptism....if its not a requirement then why did Jesus,his disciples....the disciples of John and all those that converted or accepted get baptised. Why does Paul say we are buried with him in baptism?
As to what happens to a man after death..since you don't know any more than I those things I leave to God.
The man on the cross went to Paradise which only God can permit and this was Jesus acting in His role as God the Father.
Because He is talking as a man....everyone who Has the Holy Ghost infilling has Jesus Christ in them. His body is the veil
Hbr 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Jesus is the veil that protects us from the Glory of God since no flesh can stand in his presence
"Us" in Genisis could be the host of heaven since they are made in God's image....living spirits...could also be the Royal "US" as the the monarchy use.
Ancient Of Days is Jesus..since that is the name of God where is the mystery.
Isaiah 48? what is the mystery there?
Now a question for you...
What is the name of the father in Proverbs 30:4.?
What is the name of the son whose name will be Everlasting Father?
God says there is no Saviour beside Him....to have 2 other persons
that would mean there is a Saviuor beside him which would make God a liar..
So...are you calling God a liar?
There is One God ...His Name is JESUS....How He chooses the interact is up to Him....But like I said there is only One Person in the Godhead and that is Jesus....whether you agree or not.
All Israel know that God is ONE....They will NEVER accept Him as 3 persons.
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Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye
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So prophet you believe "US" means not only God but angels created man because it clearly say's "LET US MAKE MAN"
Again in part your cult believes angels made man and that man is made in the image of angels.
The scripture say's:
Ge:1:26: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Ge:1:27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Does not say angels, it does say God created man in HIS OWN IMAGE
You wrote:
Ancient Of Days is Jesus..since that is the name of God where is the mystery.
----------
The passage in Daniel say's the Son of Man went before the Ancient of Days.
Da:7:13: I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him
Now we both know Jesus had said that is what He had to do after the ressurection. He had to go to the Father.
Joh:20:17: Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
07-24-2007, 01:24 PM
I notice you didn't address the part where I said He could be useing the Royal US as the Queen of England does even though she is one person.
I never said the angels made man.,..I said God could have been using an inclusive US where He was also talking about the host of heaven which I believe were made in His image also.
That is just the physical representation of God who is Jesus returning to the spiritual representation os Jesus. Like I said where is the mystery?
Now a question for you...
What is the name of the father in Proverbs 30:4.?
What is the name of the son whose name will be Everlasting Father?
God says there is no Saviour beside Him....to have 2 other persons
that would mean there is a Saviuor beside him which would make God a liar..
So...are you calling God a liar
I notice you avoided the two questions above or is it because even though you claim to have "seen" a non existant trinity you still don't know the Father's Name? or the Holy Ghost's Name...or is it like the Catholics priests say " A mystery my son?"
If anything is a sect it would be trinitarianism...you don't even know every "persons" name....
I never said the angels made man.,..I said God could have been using an inclusive US where He was also talking about the host of heaven which I believe were made in His image also.
That is just the physical representation of God who is Jesus returning to the spiritual representation os Jesus. Like I said where is the mystery?
Now a question for you...
What is the name of the father in Proverbs 30:4.?
What is the name of the son whose name will be Everlasting Father?
God says there is no Saviour beside Him....to have 2 other persons
that would mean there is a Saviuor beside him which would make God a liar..
So...are you calling God a liar
I notice you avoided the two questions above or is it because even though you claim to have "seen" a non existant trinity you still don't know the Father's Name? or the Holy Ghost's Name...or is it like the Catholics priests say " A mystery my son?"
If anything is a sect it would be trinitarianism...you don't even know every "persons" name....
07-25-2007, 09:06 AM
Modalism, prophet? Doesn't work biblically.
Jesus is the Father of creation (that is, he is the Creator).
Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Making the statement in Isaiah perfectly true:
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
The expression "everlasting father" is in the Hebrew "abiy-ad" simply meaning the Father of Eternity. And as I showed in Colossians 1:16, the Creator of all things is the creator of eternity as well.
The problem for prophet and those who believe as he does is the same passage in Colossians indicates the Creator has a Father...
Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the {visible} image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
This is how this Creator (God the Word) could be WITH God:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Note that THIS Father only created one thing: the flesh of the Son in which God the Word came to indwell and become.
Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Jesus is the Father of creation (that is, he is the Creator).
Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Making the statement in Isaiah perfectly true:
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
The expression "everlasting father" is in the Hebrew "abiy-ad" simply meaning the Father of Eternity. And as I showed in Colossians 1:16, the Creator of all things is the creator of eternity as well.
The problem for prophet and those who believe as he does is the same passage in Colossians indicates the Creator has a Father...
Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the {visible} image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
This is how this Creator (God the Word) could be WITH God:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Note that THIS Father only created one thing: the flesh of the Son in which God the Word came to indwell and become.
Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
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