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debate about baptism
09-04-2009, 10:57 PM
Post: #31
RE: debate about baptism
people and groups that were filled with the spirit but no tongues mention

1Zacharias

acts 4:31


acts 9
Ananias visit paul and put his hands on his eyes and baptism him and was filled with the HG bu not tongues mention at his conversion. Tongues for paul did not come until later.

acts 13 at the end the apostles were filled but no tongues mention

acts 2:41 3000 saved but not tongues mention.

Truth is simple not an option to be Told but a must for all  understanding.
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09-05-2009, 07:25 PM
Post: #32
RE: debate about baptism
Matthew 3:8 speaks of John the Baptist saying; I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He that comes after me is mightier thanI; whose shoes I am not worthy to bear; He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost , and with fire correlating the day of Pentecost, when God , gave unto Israel, and the Nations the Torah, fifty days after the the feast of Firstfruits .50 days after the anniversary of Firstfruits of Yeshua's ressurection ; G-d gave the Church the ultimate gift of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The crossing ; The feast of Passover 14th day of Nisan;Moses and Jesus freed all who would trust them. On the seventeenth day The Feast of Firstfruits; Yeshua became the firstfruits of  ressurection.If the thief was saved by grace and in paradise, I don't think they baptised him first with water. I think when I was a new Christian, every church had to baptise me. I hardly needed to take a bath!Baptism with water is an outward act to acknowledge your faith in Christ.[ Like standing in the outer court of the Temple. Iv'e known many a drenched Preachers who looked good , and spoke well, but didn't do so well with just the water!As far as speaking in tongues ;At the day of Pentecost , men spoke languages of other Nationalities, and those of those Nations were amazed. To speak in thier own language; Paul said it is better to utter 3 words that men understand, and is more for edifing oneself, and others;Sometimes; we have not words to say, but prayer tongues do not save the man, or condemn him! Sometimes I relax my mind to let the Holy Spirit enter and pray silently to G-d with words I do not know, but it is the action of emptying our vessel to let Him fill us with His spirit. Let go, and give it to G-d, and don't take it back, and leave it there. His love far outwieghs our fear of rejection!Shalom I hope I said that right . I am a bit groggy from benydryl!
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09-06-2009, 10:00 AM
Post: #33
RE: debate about baptism
There are three elements that are necessary to sustain life; they are blood water and spirit. Without these three life can not possibly exist. The scripture declares: “And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three things agree in one.” What do these three bear witness to? Of course they bear witness to life. The Hebrews were delivered and totally set free from their hard bondage to the Egyptian task masters through these same elements; (blood) of a lamb on their door post, pillar of fire by night and cloud by day (Spirit); and by the Red Sea (water). Paul writes: “Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all of our fathers were under the cloud, and passed through the sea; and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;” It is pretty evident that they were baptized unto Moses (their deliver) by water and Spirit. These three elements were witnessed in their deliverance from the Egyptians. They were completely set free from their heavy bondage as their hard task masters were buried under water for ever and a new life awaited them.

After His new birth message (Jn3:5-8) to Nicodemus, Jesus then points him to Calvary, to the third element blood.  It is clearly evident from other scriptures that the blood is in His name. Many quote John 3:16 but fail to look at John 3:18. (Jn 20:31; 1Jn 2:12; 1Jn 3:23; 1Jn 5:13; Act 4:12; Act2:38; Act 10:43; Acts 22:16; 1Cor 6:11) Jesus completely sets us free from our bondage under the harsh task master of sin as the old man ( the body of sin) is crucified being buried with him by baptism.(Romans 6:4 – 6) He is our deliver as we are baptized into Christ. When Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born of water and of the Spirit, He was definitely referring to baptism. “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body…and have all been made to drink into one Spirit,” “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death?” Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in the newness of life.” These scriptures indicate the operation of Spirit and water which is necessary. That is why Acts2:38 is absolutely correct. These same three elements are witnessed. Jesus name for remission of sins; (blood) Baptism (water - old man, old nature, body of sin buried); Holy Ghost (Spirit, the resurrection power into a new life, new nature, new creation) 2Corth 5:17.
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09-07-2009, 04:54 PM
Post: #34
RE:  debate about baptism
Robert Wrote:Matthew 3:8 speaks of John the Baptist saying; I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He that comes after me is mightier thanI; whose shoes I am not worthy to bear; He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost , and with fire correlating the day of Pentecost, when God , gave unto Israel, and the Nations the Torah, fifty days after the the feast of Firstfruits .50 days after the anniversary of Firstfruits of Yeshua's ressurection ; G-d gave the Church the ultimate gift of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The crossing ; The feast of Passover 14th day of Nisan;Moses and Jesus freed all who would trust them. On the seventeenth day The Feast of Firstfruits; Yeshua became the firstfruits of  ressurection.If the thief was saved by grace and in paradise, I don't think they baptised him first with water. I think when I was a new Christian, every church had to baptise me. I hardly needed to take a bath!Baptism with water is an outward act to acknowledge your faith in Christ.[ Like standing in the outer court of the Temple. Iv'e known many a drenched Preachers who looked good , and spoke well, but didn't do so well with just the water!As far as speaking in tongues ;At the day of Pentecost , men spoke languages of other Nationalities, and those of those Nations were amazed. To speak in thier own language; Paul said it is better to utter 3 words that men understand, and is more for edifing oneself, and others;Sometimes; we have not words to say, but prayer tongues do not save the man, or condemn him! Sometimes I relax my mind to let the Holy Spirit enter and pray silently to G-d with words I do not know, but it is the action of emptying our vessel to let Him fill us with His spirit. Let go, and give it to G-d, and don't take it back, and leave it there. His love far outwieghs our fear of rejection!Shalom I hope I said that right . I am a bit groggy from benydryl!

I often wonder if Tongues of today time can be understood by other nations.

so many tongues believers that say if you do not speak it your not saved i wonder if The tongues they speak can be understood by all nations without any knowledge of Jesus or spiritual gifts of the HG.

Truth is simple not an option to be Told but a must for all  understanding.
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09-08-2009, 06:21 PM
Post: #35
RE: debate about baptism
Jesus was the mediator of the New Testament. Scripture declares that a testament has no force while the testator is alive. We know from the scripture that both the Old and the New Testament were dedicated with blood. Therefore in order for a testament to be in force the testator must be dead. The thief on the cross died under the old covenant. The death; burial and resurrection (which is the Gospel) had not taken place, therefore the thief could not obey the Gospel. Jesus was the firstborn from the dead. A believer must follow Jesus into the death, burial and resurrection. This is what He referred to as being born again, being born of water and of the Spirit. That is why baptism is so important; it is not just an outward expression of an inward faith. “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead?” It is where a believer is put into the body of Christ. (Rom. 6:3 – 6) God shut Noah in the ark, (1Corth. 12:13 a type of body of Christ) as the water destroyed their old life. We know from the scripture that without the shedding of blood this is no remission of sin. We also know everything was purged by blood. Moses enjoined the people to the old covenant by sprinkling them with the blood of bulls and goats with water. Baptism is where a believer is enjoined to Christ. “For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”
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09-08-2009, 07:56 PM
Post: #36
RE:   debate about baptism
sugarman Wrote:
Robert Wrote:Matthew 3:8 speaks of John the Baptist saying; I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He that comes after me is mightier thanI; whose shoes I am not worthy to bear; He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost , and with fire correlating the day of Pentecost, when God , gave unto Israel, and the Nations the Torah, fifty days after the the feast of Firstfruits .50 days after the anniversary of Firstfruits of Yeshua's ressurection ; G-d gave the Church the ultimate gift of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The crossing ; The feast of Passover 14th day of Nisan;Moses and Jesus freed all who would trust them. On the seventeenth day The Feast of Firstfruits; Yeshua became the firstfruits of  ressurection.If the thief was saved by grace and in paradise, I don't think they baptised him first with water. I think when I was a new Christian, every church had to baptise me. I hardly needed to take a bath!Baptism with water is an outward act to acknowledge your faith in Christ.[ Like standing in the outer court of the Temple. Iv'e known many a drenched Preachers who looked good , and spoke well, but didn't do so well with just the water!As far as speaking in tongues ;At the day of Pentecost , men spoke languages of other Nationalities, and those of those Nations were amazed. To speak in thier own language; Paul said it is better to utter 3 words that men understand, and is more for edifing oneself, and others;Sometimes; we have not words to say, but prayer tongues do not save the man, or condemn him! Sometimes I relax my mind to let the Holy Spirit enter and pray silently to G-d with words I do not know, but it is the action of emptying our vessel to let Him fill us with His spirit. Let go, and give it to G-d, and don't take it back, and leave it there. His love far outwieghs our fear of rejection!Shalom I hope I said that right . I am a bit groggy from benydryl!

I often wonder if Tongues of today time can be understood by other nations.

so many tongues believers that say if you do not speak it your not saved i wonder if The tongues they speak can be understood by all nations without any knowledge of Jesus or spiritual gifts of the HG.
Does; Ho Shacanashea cuma kloshea , Shukumba  mean anything?
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09-10-2009, 11:50 AM
Post: #37
RE:    debate about baptism
Robert Wrote:
sugarman Wrote:
Robert Wrote:Matthew 3:8 speaks of John the Baptist saying; I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He that comes after me is mightier thanI; whose shoes I am not worthy to bear; He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost , and with fire correlating the day of Pentecost, when God , gave unto Israel, and the Nations the Torah, fifty days after the the feast of Firstfruits .50 days after the anniversary of Firstfruits of Yeshua's ressurection ; G-d gave the Church the ultimate gift of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The crossing ; The feast of Passover 14th day of Nisan;Moses and Jesus freed all who would trust them. On the seventeenth day The Feast of Firstfruits; Yeshua became the firstfruits of  ressurection.If the thief was saved by grace and in paradise, I don't think they baptised him first with water. I think when I was a new Christian, every church had to baptise me. I hardly needed to take a bath!Baptism with water is an outward act to acknowledge your faith in Christ.[ Like standing in the outer court of the Temple. Iv'e known many a drenched Preachers who looked good , and spoke well, but didn't do so well with just the water!As far as speaking in tongues ;At the day of Pentecost , men spoke languages of other Nationalities, and those of those Nations were amazed. To speak in thier own language; Paul said it is better to utter 3 words that men understand, and is more for edifing oneself, and others;Sometimes; we have not words to say, but prayer tongues do not save the man, or condemn him! Sometimes I relax my mind to let the Holy Spirit enter and pray silently to G-d with words I do not know, but it is the action of emptying our vessel to let Him fill us with His spirit. Let go, and give it to G-d, and don't take it back, and leave it there. His love far outwieghs our fear of rejection!Shalom I hope I said that right . I am a bit groggy from benydryl!

I often wonder if Tongues of today time can be understood by other nations.

so many tongues believers that say if you do not speak it your not saved i wonder if The tongues they speak can be understood by all nations without any knowledge of Jesus or spiritual gifts of the HG.
Does; Ho Shacanashea cuma kloshea , Shukumba  mean anything?

what language is that?

Truth is simple not an option to be Told but a must for all  understanding.
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09-10-2009, 04:01 PM
Post: #38
RE:   debate about baptism
sugarman Wrote:[

I often wonder if Tongues of today time can be understood by other nations.

so many tongues believers that say if you do not speak it your not saved i wonder if The tongues they speak can be understood by all nations without any knowledge of Jesus or spiritual gifts of the HG.
[/quote]

Actually yes...a few months ago a pastor in Russia heard tongues and interpretation given in English by a woman he later found out knew not a word of English.


A membe of the Special Forces has proof other than his word that he belongs to the Green Berets,Rangers or Navy Seals and it isn't his hat badge it is either a token only he carries or other way of distinguishing whether he is truly Special Forces.

Tongues is the same it is the evidence of the infilling of the Holy Ghost it is what seals the child of the Most High God...Jesus.      

Act 4:19  But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.
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09-10-2009, 04:24 PM
Post: #39
RE: debate about baptism
Also when Jesus spoke to the woman at the well,He said; The water I can give you will be a water that you will never thirst again; speaking of the Holy Spirit , and eternal salvation , and the blood of eternal salvation. The redemption of the Physical, and spiritual restoration from the G-d of Israel; The G-d of Isaac, and Jacob!
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09-11-2009, 07:05 PM
Post: #40
RE: debate about baptism
Salvation is preservation. The scriptures declare:  “when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto baptism doth now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience towards God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:” Noah and his family were saved by water as the water buried their old ways of life forever. God preserved them by shutting them up in the ark – a type of body of Christ. The ark was covered in pitch. Pitch comes from the same root word for atonement found in Lev 17:11. The pitch is what kept out the destroying waters allowing the ark to be lifted up. (Col. 2:11 – 14) Baptism corresponds to the preservation of Noah and his family.

When a believer truly believes and is baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, he is baptized into His death; where God performs a spiritual operation: “In whom ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with Him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised Him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses; (1Pet3:21) blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross,”
Jesus said: “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
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