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Pope vs Hitler
#1
Chief Rabbi of Jerusalem, Isaac Herzog,
wrote to Pope Pius on February 28, 1944 the following message:

"The people of Israel will never forget what His Holiness and his illustrious delegates, inspired by the eternal principles of religion which form the very foundations of true civilization, are doing for us unfortunate brothers and sisters in the most tragic hour of our history, which is living proof of divine Providence in this world."

Rabbi Lapide wrote:
"The Pope sent out the order that religious buildings were to give refuge to Jews, even at the price of great personal sacrifice on the part of their occupants; he released monasteries and convents from the cloister rule forbidding entry into these religious houses to all but a few specified outsiders, so that they could be used as hiding places. Thousands of Jews—the figures run from 4,000 to 7,000—were hidden, fed, clothed, and bedded in the 180 known places of refuge in Vatican City, churches and basilicas, Church administrative buildings, and parish houses. Unknown numbers of Jews were sheltered in Castel Gandolfo, the site of the Pope's summer residence, private homes, hospitals, and nursing institutions; and the Pope took personal responsibility for the care of the children of Jews deported from Italy."


A Jewish couple sheltered by the Pope stated:
"None of us wanted the Pope to take an open stand. We were all fugitives, and fugitives do not wish to be pointed at. The Gestapo would have become more excited and would have intensified its inquisitions. If the Pope had protested, Rome would have become the center of attention. It was better that the Pope said nothing. We all shared this opinion at the time, and this is still our conviction today."


Rabbi Safran of Bucharest, Romania, sent the following message April 7, 1944:  
"It is not easy for us to find the right words to express the warmth and consolation we experienced because of the concern of the supreme pontiff, who offered a large sum to relieve the sufferings of deported Jews. . . . The Jews of Romania will never forget these facts of historic importance."

  
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#2
As has already been discussed with Katolyc on another thread, the wartime pope Pius was a pragmatist who was playing to two galleries not knowing whether he was going to finish up on the loosing or winning side.

DavidJ
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#3
Grego Wrote:A Jewish couple sheltered by the Pope stated:
"None of us wanted the Pope to take an open stand. We were all fugitives, and fugitives do not wish to be pointed at. The Gestapo would have become more excited and would have intensified its inquisitions. If the Pope had protested, Rome would have become the center of attention. It was better that the Pope said nothing. We all shared this opinion at the time, and this is still our conviction today."  
Now surprise us! They converted to papism! It was well known what the 'hidden agenda' of papism was; to convert the Jew to Papism; no change in their eternal destination!

Your above cited quotation has been peddled around for a long time, including in the book 'A Righteous Gentile: Pope Pius XII and the Jews' by Rabbi David Dalin. What on earth makes a "righteous gentile" in the eyes of a Jewish Rabbi?

DavidJ
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#4
Moderators ....

I think this discussion is more suitable to the 'Roman Catholicsm' thread. Greco appears to be rapid successor to recently departed Katolyc. please?


DavidJ
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#5
Thank you for letting me know. When I approve posts, they are in a large group and I obviously missed this one was in the wrong category.

As you can see, the thread has been moved.
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#6
Grego Wrote:A Jewish couple sheltered by the Pope stated:
"None of us wanted the Pope to take an open stand. We were all fugitives, and fugitives do not wish to be pointed at.  
  

I have never in my whole life read such evil!  For anyone to suggest that the Jews escaping from horrors of Nazi Germany were fugitives beggars all belief.....

FUGITIVE "Someone who is sought by law officers; someone trying to elude justice." (WorldWeb Dictionary)

No way - now how - must it ever be suggested the Jews in WW2 were trying to elude NAZI JUSTICE!

DavidJ
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#7
Fugitive just means one seeking refuge, it doesn't mean that the nazi persecution was just. These are Jews fleeing persecution, saying this of themselves.

You are ignoring the Jewish sources. Rabbi Lapide, and Chief Rabbi Isaac Herzog of Jeruselm, aren't idiots, they actually witnessed what the Catholic Church did for the Jews.
Rabbi Lapide actually credits the Catholic Church for saving up to 860,000 Jews from the nazis.

I'll believe the official Jewish sources, not your prejudices.
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#8
No disrespect intended but any Jew that trusts the Roman Catholic Church in general and the Pope in particular whether he be a Rabbi or not is an idiot.
The stated aim of the RCC is to destroy all the Jews aka christ killers...that hasn't changed and never will. They want to see the destruction of Israel by any means necessary and are know to work hand in glove with the terrorists giving them save havens.
A leopard can't change its spots and Satan's Church can't change theirs....THey HATE JEWS PERIOD and that isn't going to change.
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#9
prophet Wrote:No disrespect intended but any Jew that trusts the Roman Catholic Church in general and the Pope in particular whether he be a Rabbi or not is an idiot.
    The stated aim of the RCC is to destroy all the Jews aka christ killers...that hasn't changed and never will.   They want to see the destruction of Israel by any means necessary and are know to work hand in glove with the terrorists giving them save havens.
   A leopard can't change its spots and Satan's Church can't change theirs....THey HATE JEWS PERIOD and that isn't going to change.

Garbage, and you know it.

So the Chief Rabbi of Jeruselm, and Rabbi Lapide ( A highly intelligent and respected Rabbi ) and Albert Einstein are all idiots according to you.

You are completely ignorant and prejudiced to ingnore them.
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#10
Mariner Wrote:I'll believe the official Jewish sources, not your prejudices.
The following are no-ones prejudices; they are historical facts!

Although informed of the massive Nazi attacks of synagogues and Jewish business in on Kristallnacht 1938-NOV, Pope Pius XII issued no public criticism.

Although informed during 1940 to 1943 of Nazi atrocities in at least Austria, Lithuania, Poland, Spain, and the Ukraine, (including deportations to death camps) he made no public comments.

Pope Pius XII "...never explicitly spoke out against Hitler." Actually, this is in error. He did condemn Hitler in a speech to the College of Cardinals, one month after the war ended.

"He refused to join a resolution of the Allies condemning the Nazi crimes."

"He never excommunicated any Nazi,"  although he did excommunicate some German Catholics who supported cremation as an alternative to burial.

"He never declared it a sin for Catholics to participate in the slaughter."

In 1941 when asked about proposed anti-Jewish laws in Vichy France, Pius XII answered that the church condemned racism, but did not repudiate every rule against the Jews.

DavidJ
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