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Peter and the Papacy.
#1
"The Pope ... is the bishop of Rome and the Vicar of Christ on earth. He is the visible head of the whole Catholic Church ... Who was the first Pope? St. Peter, who was made Pope by Jesus Christ Himself ... Did Peter's authority die with him? No, it was handed down to a man named Linus, and after he died, it was handed down to another, and so on, during the past 2000 years ... Does Jesus require us to follow the Pope in matters of religion? Yes, because obedience and loyalty to the Pope are among the chief requirements of the Lord's plan for unity in His church" (A Catechism for Adults, by William Cogan, 1975 ed., pp. 55,56).

The Bible specifically names several offices in the church and describes the work and qualifications of those who hold that office.The Bible contains several passages where the office of Pope ought to be mentioned, if it existed. Ephesians 4:11,12 and 1 Corinthians 12:28 list various officers and workers in the church, but the office of Pope is not mentioned. Why not?

Paul wrote several letters to and from Rome, naming many people there (Romans 16; Colossians 4:7-14; 2 Timothy 4:9-22; Philemon 23,24). If Peter was Pope in Rome, surely Paul would have mentioned him. But Paul mentions neither Peter nor anyone else as being Pope

Who can imagine someone today writing official letters to or from the church in Rome, listing the officers of the Roman Catholic Church, giving all this information about the work and qualifications of lesser officers, but never mentioning the Pope? If the office of Pope was established by Jesus, why does the New Testament completely fail to mention it?

DavidJ
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#2
DavidJ Wrote:If the office of Pope was established by Jesus, why does the New Testament completely fail to mention it?[/b][/u]

DavidJ

It doesn't. Know that "Pope" comes from "papal" meaning "Fatherly" or "Father". So, the only Pope and Rabbi is Elohim, El-Yisrael (Matt. 23:8-10).
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#3
Quote:The Bible specifically names several offices in the church and describes the work and qualifications of those who hold that office.The Bible contains several passages where the office of Pope ought to be mentioned, if it existed. Ephesians 4:11,12 and 1 Corinthians 12:28 list various officers and workers in the church, but the office of Pope is not mentioned. Why not?

The word Father is found in the Bible, that is what Pope means, simple.

Acts 20:17,28 - Paul refers to both the elders or priests ("presbyteroi") and the bishops ("episkopoi") of the Church. Both are ordained leaders within the hierarchical structure of the Church.

1 Tim. 3:8 - Christ's Church also has deacons ("diakonoi"). Thus, Jesus Christ's Church has a hierarchy of authority - bishops, priests and deacons, who can all trace their lineage back to Peter and the apostles.

Peter or Rock, is the head of the Apostles the Chief Bishop.

I know where the office of Bishops Priests and Deacons can be found in the Catholic Church, but do these offices exist in your protestant sect,???......no.

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#4
Quote:Who can imagine someone today writing official letters to or from the church in Rome, listing the officers of the Roman Catholic Church, giving all this information about the work and qualifications of lesser officers, but never mentioning the Pope? If the office of Pope was established by Jesus, why does the New Testament completely fail to mention it?

It does mention it in Scripture, it is a name "Peter" "Rock", Peter itself is the Title of the office. Each time you see the name "Cephas" mentioned, you are looking at the Title that Jesus Himself gave along with the Authority of the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus gave "Simon" (sand), the Title Peter "Rock".

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus said in Aramaic, you are "Kepha" and on this "Kepha" I will build my Church. In Aramaic, "kepha" means a massive stone, and "evna" means little pebble. Some non-Catholics argue that, because the Greek word for rock is "petra", that "Petros" actually means "a small rock", and therefore Jesus was attempting to diminish Peter right after blessing him by calling him a small rock. Not only is this nonsensical in the context of Jesus' blessing of Peter, Jesus was speaking Aramaic and used "Kepha," not "evna." Using Petros to translate Kepha was done simply to reflect the masculine noun of Peter.

Matt. 16:18-19 – to further rebut the Protestant argument that Jesus was speaking about Peter’s confession of faith (not Peter himself) based on the revelation he received, the verses are clear that Jesus, after acknowledging Peter’s receipt of divine revelation, turns the whole discourse to the person of Peter: Blessed are “you” Simon, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to “you,” and I tell “you,” “you” are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church. I will give “you” the keys to the kingdom, and whatever “you” bind and loose on earth will be bound and loosed in heaven. Jesus’ whole discourse relates to the person of Peter, not his confession of faith.

It all Scriptural, yet you still deny it.
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#5
If as you advocate, the Pope through succession from Peter is believed to be the head of the church, please note:

Ephesians 1:22,23 - Jesus is head over all things to the church (cf. Colossians 1:18). What is there left for a Pope or Peter to be head of?

Ephesians 5:22-24 - A husband is head of his wife as Jesus is head of the church. But for a wife to submit to two husbands is adultery (Romans 7:2,3). So for the church to submit to two heads (Jesus and the Pope) would be spiritual adultery.

Matthew 28:18-20 - Christ has all authority in heaven and on earth. He is the one lawgiver (James 4:12). To claim that the Pope may issue religious laws is to deny the unique power of Jesus.

The Bible plainly states that Jesus is Head of the church. He is the one Lord in the one body (church). There cannot be two Lords any more than there could be two Gods (Ephesians 4:4-6). Bishops (even from Rome) are forbidden to lord it over the flock (1 Peter 5:1-3).

DavidJ

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#6
Quote:Ephesians 1:22,23 - Jesus is head over all things to the church (cf. Colossians 1:18). What is there left for a Pope or Peter to be head of?

Jesus the Good Shepherd, hands over His sheep and lambs to feed and tend, to Kepha Peter " Rock " ' He placed my feet apon a Rock'. Jesus confurs on Peter the role of Shepherd of His flock.

Peter is the Shepherd of Jesus flock, made shepherd by Jesus Himself.

Quote:Ephesians 5:22-24 - A husband is head of his wife as Jesus is head of the church. But for a wife to submit to two husbands is adultery (Romans 7:2,3). So for the church to submit to two heads (Jesus and the Pope) would be spiritual adultery."

" He who listens to you, listens to Me " So when you listen to the Apostolic authority, you are actually listening to Jesus Christ.
Matthew 28:18-20 - Christ has all authority in heaven and on earth. He is the one lawgiver (James 4:12). To claim that the Pope may issue religious laws is to deny the unique power of Jesus.
Quote:It was Jesus Himself that gave the Authority to Kepha "Rock", when He gives Him alone the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. The power of binding in both Heaven and on earth.
The Bible plainly states that Jesus is Head of the church. He is the one Lord in the one body (church). There cannot be two Lords any more than there could be two Gods (Ephesians 4:4-6). Bishops (even from Rome) are forbidden to lord it over the flock (1 Peter 5:1-3)."

Christ is the Head of the Church, but He exercises His Authority through His Apostles and their successors.

" He who rejects you, rejects Me " . If you reject the Apostolic Authority, you reject Christ as well.

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#7
Quote:Ephesians 1:22,23 - Jesus is head over all things to the church (cf. Colossians 1:18). What is there left for a Pope or Peter to be head of?

Jesus the Good Shepherd, hands over His sheep and lambs to feed and tend, to Kepha Peter " Rock " ' He placed my feet apon a Rock'. Jesus confurs on Peter the role of Shepherd of His flock.

Peter is the Shepherd of Jesus flock, made shepherd by Jesus Himself.

Quote:Ephesians 5:22-24 - A husband is head of his wife as Jesus is head of the church. But for a wife to submit to two husbands is adultery (Romans 7:2,3). So for the church to submit to two heads (Jesus and the Pope) would be spiritual adultery.

" He who listens to you, listens to Me " So when you listen to the Apostolic authority, you are actually listening to Jesus Christ.

[/quote]Matthew 28:18-20 - Christ has all authority in heaven and on earth. He is the one lawgiver (James 4:12). To claim that the Pope may issue religious laws is to deny the unique power of Jesus.
Quote:It was Jesus Himself that gave the Authority to Kepha "Rock", when He gives Him alone the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. The power of binding in both Heaven and on earth.
The Bible plainly states that Jesus is Head of the church. He is the one Lord in the one body (church). There cannot be two Lords any more than there could be two Gods (Ephesians 4:4-6). Bishops (even from Rome) are forbidden to lord it over the flock (1 Peter 5:1-3).[quote]

Christ is the Head of the Church, but He exercises His Authority through His Apostles and their successors.

" He who rejects you, rejects Me " . If you reject the Apostolic Authority, you reject Christ as well.

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#8
The Bible Says Jesus Is the Chief Shepherd.

"The Vatican Council defines as an article of faith that ... Christ 'conferred upon Peter alone the jurisdiction of Chief Pastor [shepherd] and Ruler over all the flock'" (Question Box, p. 147).

But the Bible repeatedly says Jesus is the Chief Shepherd.
John 10:11,14 - Jesus is the Good Shepherd. We should not follow strangers (v1,5,8-13; cf. Ezekiel. 34:23; 37:24; Psalm. 23).

1 Peter 5:4 - Peter himself spoke of the Prince Shepherd (the footnote in the Catholic Bible says, "the Greek reads, 'the chief Shepherd'"). This Shepherd will come to reward the faithful, clearly referring to Jesus' second coming (2 Timothy 4:8; Relevation 2:10; 22:12; Matthew 25:31-46)

Hebrews 13:20 - Jesus is the Great Shepherd.

The Catholic Bible says Jesus is the Chief or Great Shepherd, but the Catholic council declared, as an article of faith, that this position belongs to "Peter alone"!

In John 21:15-17, Jesus told Peter to feed His sheep.
Some say this proves Peter was the Chief Shepherd (Question Box, pp. 147,148; Catechism, p. 56).

But all the apostles were told to feed the sheep in the sense of teaching them (Matt. 28:18-20; Mark 16:15,16) and caring for them (2 Corinthians 11:28). Bishops were also told to feed the flock (1 Peter 5:1-3; Acts 20:28). Are all these other people Popes too?

Jesus' statement was not intended to exalt Peter to authority over the other apostles, but simply to restore him to the apostleship from which he had fallen.  Peter had denied Jesus three times (John 18:15-18,25-27). So Jesus had him confess his love three times, and then restored him to the responsibility that all the apostles would share.

There is no passage, here or elsewhere, which calls Peter the Chief Shepherd or which states He has authority over the other apostles.

The basic error of the doctrine of Papal authority is that it exalts man to the place of God. God said that His Divine Son is head, foundation, and chief shepherd for the church. No mere man is ever given such positions. To exalt a man to these positions is blasphemous.[b][color=red]

DavidJ
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#9
Yes Peters Authority, is the Authority that Jesus granted him. This Authority is the Teaching authority of the Church.

It was Peter alone who recieved direct Divine Revelation from God The Father when Jesus question came " Who do you say I am ? ".

From Jesus came the question, and from Peter alone came the Infallible answer. Peters' teaching Authority is Infallible.

"And the same martyrs too commended Irenaeus, already at that time [A.D. 175] a presbyter of the community of Lyons, to the said bishop of Rome, rendering abundant testimony to the man, as the following expressions show: ‘Once more and always we pray that you may rejoice in God, Pope Eleutherius. This letter we have charged our brother and companion Irenaeus to convey to you, and we beg you to receive him as zealous for the covenant of Christ’" (ibid., 5:4:1–2).

"But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition" (Irenaeus Against Heresies 3:3:2 [A.D. 189])
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#10
Mariner Wrote:Yes Peters Authority, is the Authority that Jesus granted him. This Authority is the Teaching authority of the Church.

It was Peter alone who recieved direct Divine Revelation from God The Father when Jesus question came " Who do you say I am ? ".

From Jesus came the question, and from Peter alone came the Infallible answer. Peters' teaching Authority is Infallible.

"And the same martyrs too commended Irenaeus, already at that time [A.D. 175] a presbyter of the community of Lyons, to the said bishop of Rome, rendering abundant testimony to the man, as the following expressions show: ‘Once more and always we pray that you may rejoice in God, Pope Eleutherius. This letter we have charged our brother and companion Irenaeus to convey to you, and we beg you to receive him as zealous for the covenant of Christ’" (ibid., 5:4:1–2).

"But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition" (Irenaeus Against Heresies 3:3:2 [A.D. 189])

"Terrible arguements between heretics and Catholics, serves nothing better than to upset either ones stomach, or ones head. " Irenaeus of Lyons (175 AD).

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