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TALMUD
#1
Hi everyone,

I am a Jewish but I accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Savior and Lord! I had an opportunity to talk with a rabbi, and witnessed to him about Jesus Christ and the fact that Jesus is the Messiah. I showed him verses in the old testament that predicted the coming of the Messiah and showed him fulfilled verses in the new testament. When I showed him verses in the old testament, he then counter and showed me the Talmud, and said “be careful, it is not about the Messiah”. I then asked him who wrote the Talmud. He replied saying, “the Rabbis wrote the Talmud and Rabbis are famous. The rabbis was in communion with God who gave them words to put down in the Talmud.” I am not sure how to explain to him that the Talmud is not an inspired word of God as you’ll see in 2 Timothy 3:16 says about the Bible. How was the Talmud written, and how did rabbis know it is from God. How do I explain to the rabbi I spoke with about Talmud?

Thanks!
#2
Galia25 Wrote:Hi everyone,

I am a Jewish but I accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Savior and Lord! I had an opportunity to talk with a rabbi, and witnessed to him about Jesus Christ and the fact that Jesus is the Messiah. I showed him verses in the old testament that predicted the coming of the Messiah and showed him fulfilled verses in the new testament. When I showed him verses in the old testament, he then counter and showed me the Talmud.....How was the Talmud written, and how did rabbis know it is from God. How do I explain to the rabbi I spoke with about Talmud?

Thanks!

First of all, that "rabbi" is merely a cohan (See Matthew 23:8-10). Second, the Talmud is Pharisaical and Sadducaical commentary on the Torah and Tanakh.
#3
Galia25 Wrote:Hi everyone,

I am a Jewish but I accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Savior and Lord! I had an opportunity to talk with a rabbi, and witnessed to him about Jesus Christ and the fact that Jesus is the Messiah. I showed him verses in the old testament that predicted the coming of the Messiah and showed him fulfilled verses in the new testament...... How do I explain to the rabbi I spoke with about Talmud?
Assuming you asked your Rabbi concerning Isaiah's prophecy (chapter 53) of 'The suffering Servant' I suggest, if you have not already done so,  you may like to consider the following....

“What is the Name of the Messiah?” is asked in the Talmud, and the reply is: “The compassionate one, as it is written “These sins of ours He carries and feels compassion for us” (tractates (Massektoth), Talmud Babli. In another part of the Talmud it says: “The Messiah takes unto Himself all the suffering and torture for the sins of the Israelites. Had He not taken unto Himself this suffering, then not one person in the world could have stood the unavoidable execution as a consequence for breaking the law” (Jalkut Chadach, fol. 154, col 4, 29, Tit). The Rabbi Moshe Goddarshan writes in the Midrash (the book, interpreting the Holy Scripture):
“The Holy and Blessed God made the following agreement with the Messiah, saying to Him: Messiah My Righteous One! The sins of the people will be imposed upon you as a heavy yoke: Thine eyes shall see no light, Thine ears shall hear terrible curses, Thy mouth shall taste bitterness, Thy tongue shall cleave to Thy throat… and Thy soul shall succumb from anguish and gasping. Are You reconciled to that? If You accept to take upon Yourself all these sufferings: very well then. If not, then I shall this minute annihilate mankind — sinners. To this the Messiah answered: Lord of the universe! I gladly accept all these sufferings on one condition, that Thou shall resurrect from the dead during My time, beginning with Adam and to this day, and shall not only save only them, but also all those that You had planned to create and have not created as yet. To that the Holy and Blessed God answered: yes, I agree. In that instant the Messiah gladly took upon Himself all the suffering as it was written: “He was tortured, but suffered willingly… as a sheep led to slaughter” (from discussions on the book of Genesis).


These testimonies of orthodox Hebrew experts of the Holy Scriptures are valuable, because they show how great a significance the prophecy of Isaiah had for strengthening faith in the power of the sufferings of the Messiah on the Cross to bring salvation.

DavidJ

#4
Galia25 Wrote:Hi everyone,

I then asked him who wrote the Talmud. He replied saying, “the Rabbis wrote the Talmud and Rabbis are famous. The rabbis was in communion with God who gave them words to put down in the Talmud.” I am not sure how to explain to him that the Talmud is not an inspired word of God as you’ll see in 2 Timothy 3:16 says about the Bible. How was the Talmud written, and how did rabbis know it is from God. How do I explain to the rabbi I spoke with about Talmud?

Simply put, the Talmud shows us how to apply Torah law.
There are many examples in the Torah where we are given
a commandment to do something, but no explanation is given
on how to implement it. The Talmud fills in the gaps.
We believe G-d gave us these "fill in" laws orally at the same
time He gave us the written laws. Rabbis then expounded on
these and the result is the Talmud. It covers a vast amount
of territory, from agricultural laws, relationships between men
and women, Jews and non-Jews, civil law, and criminal law.
Just as Christians believe that the NT is the word of G-d in
addition to the Hebrew bible, so Jews believe that the Oral
law is the word of G-d and expounded upon by the rabbis.
If you want a basic overview of what the Talmud is, I would
suggest:   http://www.angelfire.com/mt/talmud/whatis.html
You are not going to have to "explain to the rabbi" about
what the Talmud is; he already knows....  Smile
#5
Sheitl Queen Wrote:
Galia25 Wrote:Hi everyone,

I then asked him who wrote the Talmud. He replied saying, “the Rabbis wrote the Talmud and Rabbis are famous. The rabbis was in communion with God who gave them words to put down in the Talmud.” I am not sure how to explain to him that the Talmud is not an inspired word of God as you’ll see in 2 Timothy 3:16 says about the Bible. How was the Talmud written, and how did rabbis know it is from God. How do I explain to the rabbi I spoke with about Talmud?

Simply put, the Talmud shows us how to apply Torah law...

Galia,
Don't listen to Chava (Sheitl Queen). She's neither Messianic nor one of common sense. Sometimes if God gives us a command without directly explaining it, we can use the Law written in our hearts and minds, as well as common sense and clues that we're given.
#6
If you reject the Rabbis, then it is impossible to read the text of the Tanakh.
Why?  Because it is those same Rabbis who tell you where to punctuate and how to read the Tanakh.  You trust your translation?  Its those Rabbis who provided you with it.  Without them, you wouldn't know how to begin reading the text.  This is a basic level, even greater levels of comprehension require Rabbinical help, - the word çìá can mean milk or fat.  Question, what does it mean in the Torah? Without the Rabbis, Israel might be a land of fat and honey!  or maybe you're not allowed to eat fat and milk together?

Simple logic.  everyone has to listen to the Rabbis.
Danny
#7
Messianics follow a lot of Oral Law and rabbinical law whether they know it or not.
If they have a mezzuzah, wear tzitzit , a tallis, fefillin.....where in the Torah does it explain how to fulfill these mitzvot?

Yarmulkes, candle lighting for shabbas and yom tov, hamotzi, benchting,
al netilat yadaim....none of this is in the written Torah.
Unless messianics have come up with their own way of interpreting the Torah to fulfill these mitzvot-which they don't, they copy how Jews do it- they are following oral law.
As Danny said, even parts of the Tanach cannot be read properly without
rabbinical interpretation and traditional readings.
As he mentioned, in Lev  7:23-25 we are given instructions about not
eating certain fats. However, the Hebrew word used can mean either
"fat" or "milk". The rabbis have decided the proper interpretation, and all
Christian scriptures accept this translation.
Many messianics try to duplicate Jewish life-keeping "rabbinically" kosher,
following shabbas observance in the same way as Jews...putting on
tefillin, tallis, using mezuzot..all based on oral law. I have always thought
it quite hypocritical that they don't believe in the very thing they are
using to determine how to observe the mitzvot: the Oral Law.
#8
Sheitl Queen Wrote:Messianics follow a lot of Oral Law and rabbinical law whether they know it or not.
If they have a mezzuzah, wear tzitzit , a tallis, fefillin.....where in the Torah does it explain how to fulfill these mitzvot?

They like some tradition or what seems implied in the Torah (Romans 1-6, 9-12, 14), use common sense, etc.; but know who Talmudics, as described in Isaiah 29:13-14, are.
#9
Sheitl Queen Wrote:I have always thought
it quite hypocritical that they don't believe in the very thing they are
using to determine how to observe the mitzvot: the Oral Law.

Just for clarification, I am not promoting that non-Jews should
be following oral law/rabbinical law because I do not believe
that they should...
#10
Dannyil Wrote:.......Without the Rabbis, Israel might be a land of fat and honey!  or maybe you're not allowed to eat fat and milk together?
If this is correct I am curious to know how the original Hebrew text translated into the English language Christian Bible without the involvement of a Rabbi to read "and I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Amorite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite." ?  (Exodus 3:8)

DavidJ


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