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Pascal and Pesach
#1
I would be a fool to not take the so-called "wager" of Pascal; but Pascal wasn't really gambling: he was just rather believing in Y'shua ben-Miryam as HaMashiach for both Yisra'el and hagoyim (like the French). Why, for example:

  1. Would I call Jesus a legend? Many others than Josephus, even the Talmud, document Y'shua ben-Miryam.
  2. Would I call Jesus a lunatic? Few, if any lunatics, cooperate with the authorities (even or especially if they're innocent), take their sentence seriously, and get people of all kinds (Jew and Gentile) to believe their innocence. Pontius Pilate, Nicodemus and other Orthodox Jewish men (and many Jewish women), benim-Zavdai (Yochanahn and Ya'akov) and others didn't consider Y'shua ben-Miryam insane or guilty.
  3. Would I call Jesus anything other than the Truth, Way, and Life? Liars are often pompously arrogant, inaccessible, "loving" to only the rich and famous, self-centered, lavish and miserly, and unwilling to die for others.
#2
Lunatic, Liar, or Lord sounds like something CS Lewis wrote in Mere Christianity. Jesus was not a lunatic, nor was he a liar. He was and is Lord even to this day. He is not however, LORD. HaShem is LORD YHVH and He is the Father of our Lord Jesus the Messiah.

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

God Himself works to bring all things under the feet of His Son. When this is complete, Jesus will deliver all things to his Father. This is played out in 1 Kings 5:2-5 as a foreshadow of the truth that will come.

"And Solomon sent to Hiram, saying,Thou knowest how that David my father could not build an house unto the name of the LORD his God for the wars which were about him on every side, until the LORD put them under the soles of his feet.But now the LORD my God hath given me rest on every side, [so that there is] neither adversary nor evil occurrent.And, behold, I purpose to build an house unto the name of the LORD my God, as the LORD spake unto David my father, saying, Thy son, whom I will set upon thy throne in thy room, he shall build an house unto my name."
Shalom,
Christopher
#3
Goy,

We all know that jc was NOT a Pascal Lamb. First of all, the Passover Lamb sacrifice has absolutely NOTHING to do with sin.

Second, if you insist that jc is the Pascal Lamb, I might have to agree with you.

The reason being is to why a "lamb" was even chosen as the sacrifice (which by the way had to be roasted, eaten and then the carcuss put outside for display).

If you actually read the Hebrew bible, you would see that the reason G-d chose a Lamb, is because it was an abomination to the Egyptians to kill it. IT WAS SOMETHING THEY WORSHIPPED.

So the Israelites, showed their obedience to G-d , by killing something that was worshipped by the Egyptians. Now that is "right in your face" defiance.

Are you sure you still want to relate jc to the Passover Lamb??
#4
chrikaren Wrote:Lunatic, Liar, or Lord sounds like something CS Lewis wrote in Mere Christianity. Jesus was not a lunatic, nor was he a liar. He was and is Lord even to this day. He is not however, LORD. HaShem is LORD YHVH and He is the Father of our Lord Jesus the Messiah.

If you deny that Y'shua ben-Miryam vi ben-El Chai is Y'shua YHVH-HaBen-El Chai, then you also fit the description of Hebrews 2, 6, 10: You have underfooted the very words of Y'shua ben-Miryam. (See John 1-3, 8-10).
#5
searchinmyroots Wrote:Goy,

We all know that jc was NOT a Pascal Lamb. First of all, the Passover Lamb sacrifice has absolutely NOTHING to do with sin.

Second, if you insist that jc is the Pascal Lamb, I might have to agree with you.

The reason being is to why a "lamb" was even chosen as the sacrifice (which by the way had to be roasted, eaten and then the carcuss put outside for display).

If you actually read the Hebrew bible, you would see that the reason G-d chose a Lamb, is because it was an abomination to the Egyptians to kill it. IT WAS SOMETHING THEY WORSHIPPED.

So the Israelites, showed their obedience to G-d , by killing something that was worshipped by the Egyptians. Now that is "right in your face" defiance.

Are you sure you still want to relate jc to the Passover Lamb??

You all the more prove the verses in Yeshayahu 53. Just as the goyim in Egypt didn't kill Lambs, so you attempt to wash your hands of Y'shua ben-Miryam, the Light to the Gentiles. Pilate attempted to wash his hands, but he knew that Y'shua ben-Miryam was innocent.

Also, why is it a problem to agree with me; and are you agreeing with me? If it were me, who knows if I'd be Messianic? See the Gospel of John and the letter to the Ephesians for a discussion on predestiny.
#6
searchinmyroots Wrote:Are you sure you still want to relate jc to the Passover Lamb??

Think about the three pieces of matzah; and envision a cross with a sign at its headboard, a Trinity (Elohim), and three execution stakes- one in the middle, and one on each side.

If you're still not convinced about the cross or anything else, I'll show you what I mean in a later post.
#7
searchinmyroots Wrote:If you actually read the Hebrew bible, you would see that the reason G-d chose a Lamb, is because it was an abomination to the Egyptians to kill it. IT WAS SOMETHING THEY WORSHIPPED.

So the Israelites, showed their obedience to G-d , by killing something that was worshipped by the Egyptians. Now that is "right in your face" defiance.

Are you sure you still want to relate jc to the Passover Lamb??
Absolutely.  When God delivered Israel out of Egypt, there were a total of 10 plagues.  See Exodus 7-12.  But the 10th was unique in that it was Israel's deliverance; the other 9 plagues did not take lives with the exception of the 5th plague that killed all the Egyptian cattle.  Among Egyptian cattle were sheep, for a reason, explained below.  It was the shepherds that were an abomination to the Egyptians.  Genesis 46:34  From the 4th to the 9th plague, the land of Goshen was severed from these plagues; God put a difference between His people and the Egyptians.  But the 10th plague, which was death of the firstborn (see the Son of God, Y'shua Messiach here) of man (and beast) applied to the Israelites as well, unless they had the blood of the lamb struck on the upper door posts and two side posts of their home.  Exodus 12  See the cross in that, and the blood of Y'shua Messiach.  The 10th plague showed God's sovereignty against Egypt's idolatrous practice that the first born of every man and beast belonged to the gods of Egypt.  (When the murrain hit the cattle, they had no animals to offer; and when the boils hit the people (and cattle), their priests who were supposed to be clean were not fit to serve.  It interrupted their false worship.)

God will punish the ungodly; but deliverance is in Y'shua Messiach.  Y'shua was made sin for us, and bore the wrath of God in His own body on the Cross.  1 Peter 2:24
#8
Baptistic,

Well of course if you read the gt first, then you can paint jc into any and every verse you want.

Yes the shepherds were an abomination to the Egyptians.

The lamb was one of their gods. Exodus 8:21-22

I don't see a cross, I don't see a messiah, I don't see a sin sacrifice, I don't see jc.

I see G-D delivering the Jewish people for obeying Him. So I guess it proves that it is our works that justifiy us. That is why when G-d gives us instructions on how to live, we try to obey Him.

There is nothing about sin in the deliverance of the Jewish people out of Egypt.

#9
searchinmyroots Wrote:Baptistic,

Well of course if you read the gt first, then you can paint jc into any and every verse you want.

Yes the shepherds were an abomination to the Egyptians.

The lamb was one of their gods. Exodus 8:21-22

I don't see a cross, I don't see a messiah, I don't see a sin sacrifice, I don't see jc.

I see G-D delivering the Jewish people for obeying Him. So I guess it proves that it is our works that justifiy us. That is why when G-d gives us instructions on how to live, we try to obey Him.

There is nothing about sin in the deliverance of the Jewish people out of Egypt.
Jesus Christ the Messiah is seen all throughout scripture; for scripture is about our redemption, not how good we can obey God or even about the nation Israel exclusively.  How are you doing with obedience, by the way?

Would you explain to me how you understand the flies in your reference to be meaning lambs?

If you do not see a sin sacrifice, and Passover only signifies an inyourface response to lamb idolatry of Egypt (no answer to the obvious, that it was about God's sovereignty against firstborn dedication to Egypt's gods?) why should the Passover lamb be without blemish?

In fact, why all the sacrifices in Leviticus?  Are they merely instructions for exercising formal obedience?  That's a very bloody kind of obedience; without Messiah in view, it is like the other nations.  Or does God actually mean to relate in a more meaningful way to His people and ultimately to the world?

Isn't the penalty for sin measured by the greatness of the One sinned against?  Isn't God infinitely holy, and haven't we all sinned against God?

Are you of the same mind as some of the Christianlike groups who believe that if we work hard enough, or suffer hard enough, or at least mean well, God will eventually put us through?  How is God glorified in our failure and lack?
#10
searchinmyroots Wrote:I don't see a cross, I don't see a messiah, I don't see a sin sacrifice, I don't see jc.

Like I said, I'll show you in a later post; but before I show, you need to go back and read the whole Torah.


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