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Eloi Eloi lama sabachthani
#1
My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?

As pointed out by Rod777 in the trinity thread, this cry alone reveals the singular personality of Jesus from that of the Father's personality.

Isn't there more to see in this cry.  And only one time have I heard a preacher mention this, that in being made sin for us, Jesus would also have been forsaken by the Holy Spirit as well, at the same moment as by the Father.

Mark said at noon the darkness came and at the ninth hour (3 hours later), Jesus made this cry.  From nine o'clock until noon sinful man could view His suffering; from noon until 3 o'clock only God could view Him, and God turned away.  Forsaken of God, yet God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself.

Jesus never wasted words.  Because Jesus is God incarnate, He spoke His words perfectly.  In His prayers during His earthly ministry, in His instructions to His disciples on how to pray, and on the Cross, Jesus addressed the Father.  On the Cross, He prayed the Father to forgive, and to the Father He committed His spirit when He died.  But after those 3 hours of making His soul an offering for sin, at the point of being made sin for us, of being forsaken of God, He cried, My God, My God - was He addressing both Father and Holy Spirit as separate personalities?  It would seem that He was, with a firm truth emphasis like that of verily, verily, that He was forsaken by God at that moment.
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#2
Yes that is 1 explaination....

The reason why even the Greek speakers left only this sentence in Arameic... Is that you can't translate it only in 1 way...
So find the other one at least.... Maybe as even important
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#3
Perhaps another explanation …

Jesus is quoting from Psalm 22 which would have been immediately recognized by those within earshot, and today by those who know the Psalms.  It follows the classic pattern of the Todah Psalms – suffering followed by deliverance.  Jesus the Messiah, Son of David, draws attention to this psalm not only because it is a prophecy of his crucifixion, but because he can very confidently give thanks knowing it’s purpose.

The prophecy in Psalm 22 is well beyond coincidence:  he is jeered at, sneered at, mocked, without help from anyone, encircled by those who oppose him, strength trickling away, thirsty, his garments were divided and lots cast for his clothing.  He is eventually laid in the dust.

But the statement is ultimately one of thanksgiving.  For he knows what his death and resurrection leads to:  “I shall proclaim your name to my brothers, praise you in full assembly”, “All the race of Jacob, honor him.  Revere him Israel!”.  “He has not turned away his face, but has listened to the cry for help”.  “The poor will eat and be filled”.  “The whole world will remember and return to the Lord, all the families of nations bow down before him”.  “All generations .. will tell of his saving justice”.  “HE HAS FULFILLED IT”.
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#4
no I mean Sabachtani can be translated to another English word... It's quit butifull but suffering is for the Church it seems more important.
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#5
Yetzirah231 Wrote:no I mean Sabachtani can be translated to another English word... It's quit butifull but suffering is for the Church it seems more important.

If I may.  Shalom,

Perhaps the only way for the complete depth and impact of Yashuah's plea, at that one moment in time, never to be repeated, was so intense that even the translator's could not do justice, thus left it alone.

That cry was for David, Yashuah, you, and for me, for every soul ever to inhabit this planet.  How great the depth of that phrase and plea.

In Messiah.  Arley
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#6
The thing is that it is known what the other! meaning is...
The Christian translations didn't leave it alone. For they always took the Suffering Side of the Story... While the Second explaination also has to do with some prophecies...  For that I'm not gonna tell it on a Messianic Forum...

But that Christians mainly want to choose the Suffering that TheAlmighty might have forsaken Jesus, is for me weird...  The worshipping of the Suffering should not be the issue...
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#7
Yetzirah - I don't believe that The Almighty had forsaken Jesus.  Jesus knew exactly what was to happen.  When he made this quote, he was refering to Psalm 22.  This is not a cry of abandonment but a cry of thanksgiving.  The full meaning of Jesus' cry is found in the entirety of Psalm 22 in the classic form of a Todah Psalm - a desperate situation, followed by a plea for help, followed by deliverence, followed by thanksgiving.
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#8
I'm not shure if Psalm 22 is the right claim even.
There it's written   ''Eli Eli Lama Azavtani....''
In the translation from Hebrew to Arameic??? is Azavtani the Same as Sabachtani? or does Sabachtani have more meanings is the questions.

Yes! Sabachtani has more in it than only Azavtani...

I don't stand in the Christian tradition, so for my part it means also ''Forsaken'' but it's a pity, that Christians claim it more or the less as their national suffering, and put the empfasys on suffering only.

Greetings.
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#9
The deliverance and the thanksgiving are His resurrection and ascension.  Jesus Christ was forsaken of God as He bore our sin on the Cross.  He was forsaken so we could be accepted.  Christ bore it all.
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#10
Baptistic Wrote:My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?

As pointed out by Rod777 in the trinity thread, this cry alone reveals the singular personality of Jesus from that of the Father's personality.

Isn't there more to see in this cry.  And only one time have I heard a preacher mention this, that in being made sin for us, Jesus would also have been forsaken by the Holy Spirit as well, at the same moment as by the Father.

Mark said at noon the darkness came and at the ninth hour (3 hours later), Jesus made this cry.  From nine o'clock until noon sinful man could view His suffering; from noon until 3 o'clock only God could view Him, and God turned away.  Forsaken of God, yet God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself.

Jesus never wasted words.  Because Jesus is God incarnate, He spoke His words perfectly.  In His prayers during His earthly ministry, in His instructions to His disciples on how to pray, and on the Cross, Jesus addressed the Father.  On the Cross, He prayed the Father to forgive, and to the Father He committed His spirit when He died.  But after those 3 hours of making His soul an offering for sin, at the point of being made sin for us, of being forsaken of God, He cried, My God, My God - was He addressing both Father and Holy Spirit as separate personalities?  It would seem that He was, with a firm truth emphasis like that of verily, verily, that He was forsaken by God at that moment.
Amen! Also what if we couple Matthew 27:46 with Isaiah 6:3 and ask the question why is One Holy Word missing in Yeshua's cry... or maybe there is no Holy Word missing since the Holy One was actually speaking?

Mat 27:46
At about three, Yeshua uttered a loud cry, “Eli! Eli! L’mah sh’vaktani?” (My God! My God! Why have you deserted me?)

Isa 6:3
And one cried to another and said, “Set-apart, set-apart, set-apart is LORD of hosts; all the earth is filled with His esteem!”

Isa 6:3  And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
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