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A gentile and the Sabbath
#11
I agree with you.. and has it ever occurred to most messianics? This: That when WOULD Jesus and Paul go to preach the good news of the Gospel but to those in the synagogue on the 7th day of the week{known as the Sabbath} That is where they were! After infuriating Paul he said since they refused to hear, lo we turn to the gentiles. Moses clearly told the children of Israel that another Prophet like himself would come and that they WOULD hear HIM.Jesus said only His sheep hear HIS voice .HE said many times: Those with ears to hear,let him hear!
#12
Apostle Paul made it clear...one your sins are forgiven by God's grace, it is NOT okay to go on sinning....Romans 3 Shall we sin more so grace abounds? God forbid"....Apostle John defines sin as "transgression of the law" 1st John 2....and Apostle Paul says "if you sin after you have been forgiven by God's grace, there is no more sacrifice left for you to obtain forgiveness..Hebrews 10.
#13
In this particular passage I see nothing to make me feel that Paul considered that day THE LORDS DAY, as in the only Holy Day of the week, Saturday. Recalling the passage;
•Acts 20:7, "And on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to depart the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight."
I think it simply means that he met with them on Monday and had a meal together and ministered to them during that meal and late into the night. Oh to have been blessed to have heard his message and have been in that room.

I hold up the day is Saturday that we are to keep Holy, however, some would let someone drown in front of them rather than save a life on Saturday.....craziness.....the question is not which day, that is clear, the question is what is Holy to one person is unholy to another....only God can judge us on this matter! But as to the day....Saturday is that day!
#14
(11-23-2012, 06:15 PM)mitch4Jesus Wrote: I agree with you.. and has it ever occurred to most messianics? This: That when WOULD Jesus and Paul go to preach the good news of the Gospel but to those in the synagogue on the 7th day of the week{known as the Sabbath} That is where they were! After infuriating Paul he said since they refused to hear, lo we turn to the gentiles. Moses clearly told the children of Israel that another Prophet like himself would come and that they WOULD hear HIM.Jesus said only His sheep hear HIS voice .HE said many times: Those with ears to hear,let him hear!

Acts:13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes,they were filled with envy:and contradicting and blaspheming,they opposed the things spoken by Paul..46.Then Paul and Barnabus grew bold and said. ;itwas NECESSARY that the word of God should be spoken to you first: but since you reject it,and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life;behold,we turn tothegentiles. Paul was filled with the Sprit before preaching those many words and so were the gentiles after hearing them. GOD will not share glory with anyone!!! GET IT?!? The only way of salvation is Jesus ,who said : I AM the WAY and the TRUTH and the LIFE!! No one comes to the FATHER but through ME! HE meant what HE said and HE still does.!! Let no man think he can gain salvation by what does{even a sabbath day} However ,Jews will be jews and arabs will be arabs and so on.HE did {after all} say that few there be that find the way to life.Exclamation
#15
Quote:As Jeffrey Seif said to us in Israel a couple of years ago: "Two jews,three opinions" Little wonder there is so much confusion... besides al the Devil has done to confuse the issue with the wars and splits and genocides and false teachers Jesus clearly warned us about. I think Moses and Paul who both spent time in arabia knew what they were saying and I wish HE was here to help us with this thing ,as I dont consider myself a teacher according to the book of James . Grace peace hope and love to all. GM
hi Mitch4Jesus,
Well I don't understand. A lot within Judaism is about that different opinions can exist side by side. It is often in the Western world that they want 1 solution for everything, that then forces others to keep only 1 accepted tradition. I think in the churches they have much more conflicts about this than within Jewish groups. Did Jews ever started a genocide because of a difference of opinion? No, but yes in the churches it happened.
By the way, when did Paul ever went to Arabia??? You mean Turkey what was called Minor Asia? That were not Arabs.
#16
Gal_1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

Galatians 1:10
What Paul had said more generally, in the preface of this epistle, he now proceeds more particularly to enlarge upon. There he had declared himself to be an apostle of Christ; and here he comes more directly to support his claim to that character and office. There were some in the churches of Galatia who were prevailed with to call this in question; for those who preached up the ceremonial law did all they could to lessen Paul's reputation, who preached the pure gospel of Christ to the Gentiles: and therefore he here sets himself to prove the divinity both of his mission and doctrine, that thereby he might wipe off the aspersions which his enemies had cast upon him, and recover these Christians into a better opinion of the gospel he had preached to them. This he gives sufficient evidence of,
I. From the scope and design of his ministry, which was not to persuade men, but God, etc. The meaning of this may be either that in his preaching the gospel he did not act in obedience to men, but God, who had called him to this work and office; or that his aim therein was to bring persons to the obedience, not of men, but of God. As he professed to act by a commission from God; so that which he chiefly aimed at was to promote his glory, by recovering sinners into a state of subjection to him. And as this was the great end he was pursuing, so, agreeably hereunto, he did not seek to please men. He did not, in his doctrine, accommodate himself to the humours of persons, either to gain their affection or to avoid their resentment; but his great care was to approve himself to God. The judaizing teachers, by whom these churches were corrupted, had discovered a very different temper; they mixed works with faith, and the law with the gospel, only to please the Jews, whom they were willing to court and keep in with, that they might escape persecution. But Paul was a man of another spirit; he was not so solicitous to please them, nor to mitigate their rage against him, as to alter the doctrine of Christ either to gain their favour or to avoid their fury. And he gives this very good reason for it, that, if he yet pleased men, he would not be the servant of Christ. These he knew were utterly inconsistent, and that no man could serve two such masters; and therefore, though he would not needlessly displease any, yet he dared not allow himself to gratify men at the expense of his faithfulness to Christ.
#17
Quote:Gal_1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
The book of Galatia (Gauls or Celts), is about the Celtic tribes who lived in Turkey. Paul is a bit vague where he was in (Saudi) Arabia (for that was the main Arabic country in those days, Palestinians and Egyptians were not Arab nations. And it did not seem that he had any effect in Arabia, never heared much of what Paul established in Arabia. But interesting to know. Thanks.

Quote:The judaizing teachers, by whom these churches were corrupted, had discovered a very different temper; they mixed works with faith, and the law with the gospel, only to please the Jews, whom they were willing to court and keep in with, that they might escape persecution. But Paul was a man of another spirit;
Paul himself was a loner, he writes to have done all things by himself (while most Biblical and Christian Testament sources say you should do things 2 by 2.) But Paul was quite fanatic, and wanted no advice from nobody untill this point it seems. Later he went to Jerusalem and was corrected on some points.
Paul who was not Jewish from his fathers side became quite anti-Jewish indeed. This does not mean he was right with de-Judaizing Christianity by getting rid of works. This maybe to please himself and some of his converts to his other kind of spirit. Indeed when the Catholic Church took mainly his books into the Christian Testament, they did choose for another spirit than the biblical one. And Paulinism went it's own way, outside of the direction of ''Jerusalem'' where the brother of Jesus was active among others. Paul never knew Jesus while on earth (he got only 1 vision according to himself only, 1 witness: himself) and didn't want to listen to others much. Well that happens a lot with gentiles as well as some Jews who don't want to follow the law.
#18
"Paul himself was a loner, he writes to have done all things by himself"

Where did you get this piece of trivia, since he was first seen holding coats for a group of Pharisees, next seen traveling with a company of men sent with letters from the high priest? Then when he became a Christian, he was in the company of others almost constantly. When he went out as an apostle, he went out with Barnabas, then when he and Barnabas had a disagreement, Paul CHOSE Silas to be his companion. On and on it goes. You will be hard pressed to find the few instances when Paul was alone.

On the other hand, Elijah WAS alone much of the time.

"But Paul was quite fanatic, and wanted no advice from nobody until this point it seems. Later he went to Jerusalem and was corrected on some points."

Paul was not fanatic, but was following direct instructions from the Lord, and he was not corrected at Jerusalem. He had the correct teaching already. At the same time, he took advice from James at Jerusalem.

"Paul who was not Jewish from his fathers side became quite anti-Jewish indeed."

Since you do not have Paul's genealogy, then I will just accept Paul's own word that he was of the tribe of Benjamin, and that means on his father's side. That has nothing to do with the Roman citizenship rules. His father was evidently a Roman citizen. He was never anti-Jewish. He did speak against Jewish fables and errors that Jews commonly propagated. You right now are a Jew propagating false teaching. So, is anyone who disagrees with you anti-Jewish?

"Paul never knew Jesus while on earth (he got only 1 vision according to himself only, 1 witness: himself)..."

Paul was with a group of men at the time, but who could not understand the voice. Also, Ananias was given a vision in which he was told that the change had happened to Paul. His doctrines are confirmed by other Biblical writers, John, James, and Peter. His vision and doctrines were confirmed with signs.

If you want to reject the New Testament, base your rejection on facts, not on imagination.
#19
Quote:Where did you get this piece of trivia, since he was first seen holding coats for a group of Pharisees, next seen traveling with a company of men sent with letters from the high priest? Then when he became a Christian, he was in the company of others almost constantly. When he went out as an apostle, he went out with Barnabas, then when he and Barnabas had a disagreement, Paul CHOSE Silas to be his companion. On and on it goes. You will be hard pressed to find the few instances when Paul was alone.
Indeed he was often with other people, but Paul writes that he did receive the Gospel not from any man. Only by his ''vision''. It's not clearly written how often he got visions, I think only once, but maybe I am wrong.
Quote:On the other hand, Elijah WAS alone much of the time.
Yes, but Elijah had to be recognized by the sanhedrin and communicate etc. So he was within the system.

Quote:Paul was not fanatic, but was following direct instructions from the Lord, and he was not corrected at Jerusalem. He had the correct teaching already. At the same time, he took advice from James at Jerusalem.
Advice because Paul understood things differently.
Quote:Since you do not have Paul's genealogy, then I will just accept Paul's own word that he was of the tribe of Benjamin, and that means on his father's side. That has nothing to do with the Roman citizenship rules.
It was very hard to get Roman citizenship rules for (religious) Jews. I did read about it about 15 years ago in connection with Paul. We would have to research it again. At the other hand indirectly he claims to be a son of a Pharisee (Acts 23:6). Bit complicated indeed.
Paul was more fanatic than his teacher Gamliel if you want to believe Acts 5:34-39 and the CT. Paul zealously persecuted the "saints" while his teacher didn't teach so. Paul said that: beyond measure he persecuted the "church of God". He did much more than Judaism asked for, so he was fanatic. He stood by how Stephen was stoned acc. to the CT.
When he became Christian, he became quite anti-Jewish, first of all by not going according to the Sanhedrin still he was the same kind of rebel. Paul went against the core of Judaism. Fables and other things are a different cup of tea, we can discuss that, but according to rules. Paul just didn't
#20
Quote:Paul was with a group of men at the time, but who could not understand the voice. Also, Ananias was given a vision in which he was told that the change had happened to Paul. His doctrines are confirmed by other Biblical writers, John, James, and Peter. His vision and doctrines were confirmed with signs.
Aha, interesting, at least there were more people.
This is not how Judaism works though, that only signs can proof things or positions.

Quote:If you want to reject the New Testament, base your rejection on facts, not on imagination.
I do. That is partly the thing, not to base it on dreams and signs alone. We are ordered to work within the system that The Almighty gave us.
The New Testament is just a bunch of books written by different people, sometimes edited in order to get recognized by the council of Nicae, and other apostels were left out because they didn't fit the Christian Church. To complicated choise to even start to recognize it as an original, even if I would become Christian.


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