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Merry CHRISTmas
#31
Prophet...Paul if you read all of Chap. 2 you will see Paul is referring to the Mosaic laws, the 613 sacrificial, feast, ceremonial, cleanliness, etc laws, which have nothing to do with the Holy Seventh day Sabbath......the seventh day Sabbath comes from Creation when God Created it on the SEVENTH day of Creation week, blessed it and made it Holy..and then He commanded it in Exodus 20...He gave us all free will, to either follow Him and His Holy word or follow satan and His traditions of man..Romans 12 "do not conform to this world", "satan is god of this world" Romans 4...
#32
(11-07-2012, 06:50 PM)John 14.6 Wrote: Prophet...Paul if you read all of Chap. 2 you will see Paul is referring to the Mosaic laws, the 613 sacrificial, feast, ceremonial, cleanliness, etc laws, which have nothing to do with the Holy Seventh day Sabbath......the seventh day Sabbath comes from Creation when God Created it on the SEVENTH day of Creation week, blessed it and made it Holy..and then He commanded it in Exodus 20...He gave us all free will, to either follow Him and His Holy word or follow satan and His traditions of man..Romans 12 "do not conform to this world", "satan is god of this world" Romans 4...

In the law, the Torah, God does not give a day where one man can esteem it to the Lord while another does not. It isn't found. Yet that is what you read in the book of Romans.

The number 613 you mention, you do realize is strictly Rabbinical?
#33
Some of the people whom Paul was working with were doing just that..esteeming one day over another..the feast and Holy days..Paul set them straight obviously...
Why would you make the unwarranted assumption Paul was condoning all sorts of pagan days such a sunday, dec 25, easter when he would never consider that? He would be very conscious of the fact to not add or subtract from the word of God, as well as God's law and commandments...which he followed, especially the seventh day Sabbath throughout his ministry and life (all the apostles followed the Holy seventh day Sabbath)...
#34
[undefined=undefined]Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:


Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.

So as I said my sabbath can be whenever I take it... [/undefined]

This does not make it God's Sabbath.
Prophet if you take your sabbath, in this way it might not correspond with HIS Sabbath.
It is written that it are HIS festivals. So why do you speak about ''your'' Sabbath?

Secondly, this text might speak about how people are not to judge about how they celebrate their new moons.
It does not say: from now on we can ''celebrate new year on a not new moon'', and as the catholic church desided that they can't celebrate Passover on the 14th of Nisan, because the Church should specifically celebrate it on another day, 1 or 2 weeks later than full moon, because you christians can't celebrate it together with Jews.
In these ways, the Church did themselves indeed to celebrate their OWN Sabbaths and festivals. And desided that they can't be judged.
The Christian Testament was compiled in these same years that the Church desided that they can't celebrate some festivals on God's Jewish dates, so it might even be that they needed to fit in some textual translations to fit into the Roman religion.
Yes let's celebrate new moon, on full moon, and you still think you can call it new moon, or you can call your Sabbath, THE Sabbath?
Yes the Western world created that Jews should be exactly like the Greeks, how wonderfull that God had to fit into your Roman/Greek traditions?
#35
Hi Messianic,

Quote:In the law, the Torah, God does not give a day where one man can esteem it to the Lord while another does not. It isn't found. Yet that is what you read in the book of Romans.

The number 613 you mention, you do realize is strictly Rabbinical?

Well in Torah, it is written what day to choose for new moon, Sabbath, the 1st day of the Sevent month, 14th of Nissan etc.etc.

The number 613 is indeed rabbinical, in the Tenach text it seems there are a few more laws. The number is rabbinical, the Laws by themselves are stricktly Godly.
#36
(11-09-2012, 10:36 PM)John 14.6 Wrote: Some of the people whom Paul was working with were doing just that..esteeming one day over another..the feast and Holy days..Paul set them straight obviously...
Why would you make the unwarranted assumption Paul was condoning all sorts of pagan days such a sunday, dec 25, easter when he would never consider that? He would be very conscious of the fact to not add or subtract from the word of God, as well as God's law and commandments...which he followed, especially the seventh day Sabbath throughout his ministry and life (all the apostles followed the Holy seventh day Sabbath)...

You assume those days were applied only to the Feast and Holy Days. One day now equals only a day in the law of Moses? That doesn't make sense. If it applied to the law of Moses, Apostle Paul would have mentioned it, and he did not. After all this letter was written to Romans.
#37
Hello.

(11-10-2012, 04:32 PM)Yetzirah231 Wrote: Well in Torah, it is written what day to choose for new moon, Sabbath, the 1st day of the Sevent month, 14th of Nissan etc.etc.

'To choose' in the sense that God is the one who did the choosing. But we are in the law of liberty and Apostle Paul said one man esteems one day to the Lord while another man does not, we are not suppose to judge a servant of Christ.

This user on here is saying some do it just for salvation, well then that is wrong. But most people simply don't. Grace falls on them all the same.

Now in the law of Moses, you esteem the day to the Lord that we are told to. There is no I pick this day while another man picks another day and we are both good. Each day is to be strictly honored when God says. Big difference from the New Testament which gives us even more grace.

(11-10-2012, 04:32 PM)Yetzirah231 Wrote: The number 613 is indeed rabbinical, in the Tenach text it seems there are a few more laws. The number is rabbinical, the Laws by themselves are stricktly Godly.

Agreed.
#38
(12-25-2008, 12:04 AM)jewpoet Wrote: Which is which?

As a Yehud who grew up in a "evangelical family" i used to celebrate Christmas with the tradition stuff like Santa Claus and stuff, lights and food every Christmas midnight celebration and all that. But i noticed that as my life progressed Christmas seems to have gone into a celebration of family, food, gifts and all that and we have lose sight of the reason why we celebrate Christmas and the first syllable of that word. We tend to overdo our celebration with the so called good stuff of the celebration and not the celebrator who is Yashuah ha Mashiak, His reason for coming  and our responsibility to obey what he'd been telling us that to love our neighbors as we love ourselves and ironically every Christmas we only celebrate it with our family extravagantly but not noticing the decoration that we have in our houses of the holy family in a manger not with their family but with strange poor shepherds as well as rich wise men.  True Christmas is a celebration of giving, loving and caring for the needy people which is why Yashuah gave up his rich abode to be with the poor and not just salvation he brought along with him but as well as the knowledge on how to express our love towards other mankind. Merry CHRISTMAS and PEACE GOODwill towards all!!!

This is an excellent attitude.I have tried to practice it most of my life.Thank you for your sharing without unnecessary intellectualization,semantics and other things so often found in these forums. Thank you very much! Peace Grace and love, MitchSmile
#39
(10-20-2012, 04:09 PM)MAlan Wrote: What an undertone of "Jewish, good -- gentile, bad" there is in some of these threads!

God commanded His Jewish people to celebrate certain holy days. Where does Scripture say that gentiles are commanded to celebrate them as well?

When the New Testament was written, most believers in Jesus still were Jewish. As the centuries past, after the New Testament books were completed, most believers were gentile. Their ancestors were not freed from Egypt, nor did they leave Scotland to journey to Jerusalem for the Feast of Dedication. Being grateful for Jesus' birth and resurrection, they have celebrated those events in ways particular to their cultures.

Feel free to shriek "Pagans! Heretics!" at them if you want. But Chinese Christians, Kenyan Christians, Cherokee Christians, etc., etc. will continue to worship Jesus in ways that reflect their heritage, language and customs -- just as Jews will continue to celebrate their holy days in ways that reflect their heritage and culture.

Many people who consider themselves Christians are that in name (or perhaps family tradition, etc.) only -- but many, perhaps most, Jews are secular as well, and look forward to their holy days (holidays) primarily for the renewal of family ties and traditions.

Many people focus only on the material things of Christmas and Easter, but none of us knows how the Holy Spirit is working in their hearts to draw them closer to Him. It is an act of Christian charity to look for the best in others, and not assume the worst about them.

If you don't want to celebrate Jesus' birth and resurrection, then don't. They aren't celebrated in your honor, nor are the gifts given to you.

Jesus looks on the heart. Leave that to Him.
#40
(10-20-2012, 04:09 PM)MAlan Wrote: What an undertone of "Jewish, good -- gentile, bad" there is in some of these threads!

God commanded His Jewish people to celebrate certain holy days. Where does Scripture say that gentiles are commanded to celebrate them as well?

When the New Testament was written, most believers in Jesus still were Jewish. As the centuries past, after the New Testament books were completed, most believers were gentile. Their ancestors were not freed from Egypt, nor did they leave Scotland to journey to Jerusalem for the Feast of Dedication. Being grateful for Jesus' birth and resurrection, they have celebrated those events in ways particular to their cultures.

Feel free to shriek "Pagans! Heretics!" at them if you want. But Chinese Christians, Kenyan Christians, Cherokee Christians, etc., etc. will continue to worship Jesus in ways that reflect their heritage, language and customs -- just as Jews will continue to celebrate their holy days in ways that reflect their heritage and culture.

Many people who consider themselves Christians are that in name (or perhaps family tradition, etc.) only -- but many, perhaps most, Jews are secular as well, and look forward to their holy days (holidays) primarily for the renewal of family ties and traditions.

Many people focus only on the material things of Christmas and Easter, but none of us knows how the Holy Spirit is working in their hearts to draw them closer to Him. It is an act of Christian charity to look for the best in others, and not assume the worst about them.

If you don't want to celebrate Jesus' birth and resurrection, then don't. They aren't celebrated in your honor, nor are the gifts given to you.

Jesus looks on the heart. Leave that to Him.

Amen,MAlan. I guess some people will NEVER take what "Rav Shaul" wrote in Gallatians.It seems to be another instance here. Jesus might say: "They know not what they do." Im sure the apostle Paul would take adamant measures against such folks;just as he did Simon Peter. Once again...ThanksSmile


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