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Any comments from the Orthodox?
#1
Some time ago I sent some emails out and made it known that Jacob Prasch (http://www.moriel.org) is willing to debate ANY Rabbi on camera. The challenge fell on fearful/ trembling ears :cheesygrin:. Eventually I received an email from a Rabbi in New York who said that there is no Rabbi willing to debate Jacob because he insists on doing it on camera and that it is not the style of top Rabbis to be 'flashy'. If Jacob wants to debate then he can do it off camera. I explained that Jacob only does camera so that he can never be misquoted. Anyway, after a few email exchanges I asked this Rabbi a few questions which I was surprised he was prepared to answer. Anyway, I asked him: "Do Jews evangelize?" And he answered, "No". So I then asked him, "Are we in the last days?" and he answered, "Yes". So then I posed, "Then if we are in last days and Jews don't evangelise then how is Isaiah's servant to the Goyim (Nations) going to be fulfilled?" He was silent by virtue of his lack of email response to my last question. So I emailed him back and asked him straight out: "So do you admit then that Jesus is the servant that has taken G-d's light to the Nations, then?". Now this is amazing, he then said "Yes". I pressed him to elaborate and this is what I got.
"Jesus is the Mesiah but only the Messiah for the Gentiles"

Can someone comment please?
#2
I don't know what the rabbi realy means, so I can't fill it in.

I only can say that the simple explanation of Rabbi Maimonides is that the Christians and the Muslims have within there Monotheism, parts of the teachings of the world to come and the same basic ethics.
But that does not mean that Jews should follow Koran or N.T.
It's good for the gentiles to do it.
#3
This is a view and a response I have seen as well. I've watched many debates between Leading Rabbis and Leading Christian leaders and they explain it like this.

"Jesus is the Gentile Messiah, he is preparing the Gentile world for the coming of the real messiah. Jesus is a light to the gentiles because he points us to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, preparing the gentiles for the real messiah."

The problem is, Jesus didn't claim to be the gentile messiah, no one did, not him, not his disciples, not even paul! Jesus claimed to be the Jewish Messiah when he said that Moses wrote about him, and when he said that the scriptures testify about him! My point is, he is either the Messiah of everyone or the Messiah of no one.

Lastly, I want to point out that Dr. Micheal Brown still awaits those who want to debate him, privately or publicly! After Tovia Singer and Rabbi Shmuley Boteach debated him, no one dared to debate him. I encourage all to watch these debates and see why.
#4
Why do Christians feel the need to debate publicly with Rabbis? We Jews know we are right; you Christians know you are right. So leave it at that.
#5
Quote:Yetzirah231: It's good for the gentiles to do it.

Hi 231. Isn't it strange how it is good for the Gentiles to have a sacrifice blood offering to appease G-d's wrath .....and not good for the Jews? It is the very Jewish book that we get this ritual from in the first place!...lol...

Looks like we are obeying YOUR book ...more so than you.
#6
Rabbi Yisroel ben Avrohom Wrote:Why do Christians feel the need to debate publicly with Rabbis? We Jews know we are right; you Christians know you are right. So leave it at that.


A public debate is where a subject is most easily scrutinised. You cannot hang dirty laundry up in public without someone seeing. Likewise, a Messianic debate between a Rabbi & a Messianic gets full scrutiny. There is no hiding in public. I have to be very honest with you and say this without bias.... I have seen a few public debates in this regard and can say that the Messianics win hands-down. Isn't this very strange? Whenever I have had a private discussion with a Rabbi he will say, "Sorry son, but if you knew Hebrew you would know better..etc ...etc". Jacob Prasch, for example, speaks Hebrew & Greek and is familiar with ancient manuscripts. Suddenly on stage these 'all-knowing' Rabbis are silenced by his incredible scholarship. The true 'meat' of a subject is there for all to see and consider when done in public.

But Rabbi Yisroel, I think you do know deep, deep down in your heart that us true bible believing Christians love you guys and that a public debate is not called for to humiliate anyone but that so the bare truth is dealt with for all to hear and see. This sort of debate is absolutely nothing like the old Catholic forced debates - this is a subject Dr. Brown deals with in his book, "Our Hands are Stained with Blood".
#7
Neotetro Wrote:This is a view and a response I have seen as well. I've watched many debates between Leading Rabbis and Leading Christian leaders and they explain it like this.

"Jesus is the Gentile Messiah, he is preparing the Gentile world for the coming of the real messiah. Jesus is a light to the gentiles because he points us to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, preparing the gentiles for the real messiah."

The problem is, Jesus didn't claim to be the gentile messiah, no one did, not him, not his disciples, not even paul! Jesus claimed to be the Jewish Messiah when he said that Moses wrote about him, and when he said that the scriptures testify about him! My point is, he is either the Messiah of everyone or the Messiah of no one.

Lastly, I want to point out that Dr. Micheal Brown still awaits those who want to debate him, privately or publicly! After Tovia Singer and Rabbi Shmuley Boteach debated him, no one dared to debate him. I encourage all to watch these debates and see why.


Good post.
#8
Rabbi Yisroel ben Avrohom Wrote:Why do Christians feel the need to debate publicly with Rabbis? We Jews know we are right; you Christians know you are right. So leave it at that.

That's where things need to change. Truth needs to come to light. At least for those honestly searching, those who are on the fence, and will follow the evidence.
#9
Quote:Neotetro: That's where things need to change. Truth needs to come to light. At least for those honestly searching, those who are on the fence, and will follow the evidence.


Exactly. If I am accused of, say, fraud and yet I know I am innocent I will glady have my case investigated publicly.

The Rabbi says that seeing as though both Tulmudic Jews & Christians think they are both right then there is no point in arguing. I absolutely disagree with that thinking. I met a Mormon that said he would bet his soul on the fact that Mormonism is true. Five years later I met him and he had become a Christian. I asked him what he is going to do as he swore by his soul that Mormonism is true and yet he is now a Christian? He just said that he asked G-d to forgive him of his foolish statement. I asked him what made him change. He said he watched a debate between Greg Koukl and some Mormon guy and was shown Christianity to be true as a result of the public debate. He said that his elders in the Mormon Tabernacle were not being honest with their flock and were keeping them in the dark - this public debate made him see evidence to the contrary.

Now this what I am about to say must not sound bad as I don't mean to offend anyone...but look at how Daniel 9 and Isaiah 53 was banned from Jewish reading for years. I mean even the Catholic Popes banned public possession of bibles lest their flock 'educate' themselves.

Yes, why don't we get Dr Brown or Jacob Prasch just to sit down and debate the Gadol Hador who lives just north of Tel Aviv once and for all? I spoke to some Orthodox guy in Jerusalem some time ago who told me gleefully that the Gadol Hador will GLADLY debate Jacob Prasch ANY TIME!!! I then asked him to give the Gadol Hador my email address so that I could pass it on to Jacob. But I am still waiting.....:neutral:
#10
Neotetro Wrote:
Rabbi Yisroel ben Avrohom Wrote:Why do Christians feel the need to debate publicly with Rabbis? We Jews know we are right; you Christians know you are right. So leave it at that.

That's where things need to change. Truth needs to come to light. At least for those honestly searching, those who are on the fence, and will follow the evidence.

Well I've searched the internet for the debates between Dr. Michael Brown and Rabbi Tovia Singer and every link I come across is broken. Very strange.


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