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Christian history and the Jewish people
#11
yetzirah , where did you come up with this revisionist history at , and what country are you from ? i'm part indian myself .the protestants didn't try to keep the word of God from the indians .the Indians were not put on reservations for or against anyones religious beliefs.they were put there by powerhungry greedy politicans similar to the ones in the present u.s. administration now . can you show me some proof that u.s. company's organized their own  labour camps, imprisoning Jews and communists in Germany? most persecutions throughout the travel of christianity came  from the catholic church against the protestants and Jews who refused the concept of the pope being the most high Father.i have foxes' book of martyrs here with me and if you want i can read some of it to you .one of the protestant teachers who was instrumental in producing individual Bibles for lay persons to read for them selves ;after he died the priests were so angry at him dug up his body ,burnt it and cast the ashes in a river. about the communists they closed down the churches in russia and killed about 60 million people far surpassing hitler .
#12
"Paul seems to have here and there other opinions than Jesus, and especially different than Jesus brother Jacob. ...Paul seems to have here and there other opinions than Jesus, and especially different than Jesus brother Jacob."

Jesus never referred to the apostle Paul by name, but did refer to others who would come in later and further revelations (John 10:16, 16:12, for example).  Peter, who was one of the principal apostles, did mention Paul by name in II Peter 3:15-16, which confirms Paul's own claim that he was writing revelations of Jesus, and that he was completely in accord with Peter, James, Jesus' brother, and the apostle John. (Galatians 1:12, 2:9)

Next, with regard to Paul's claim that he was speaking revelations from God as a prophet, that presents us with two possibilities.  One is that Paul was a false prophet deserving to be killed.  The other is that he was telling the truth.  God gave us tests for prophets, that they had to give a sign of their prophecy and that their message could not direct us to serve other gods or contradict God's other words.  During Paul's life, he was not censured by the others, but was wholeheartedly accepted by them.  He gave a number of local prophecies that all came true.  None accused him of changing God's word.  In my life, I have seen a number of Paul's instructions come true as I followed his instructions and doctrines.  As I wrestled with confusions about his teachings, I saw resolutions come from simply paying attention to the words without reading in assumptions. Then when I settled by doubts about what Paul wrote, I found that all supposed conflicts with Jesus and James disappeared.  This provided the proofs for me to decide that Paul was a true prophet.
#13
Hi FreeOholic836

Quote:yetzirah , where did you come up with this revisionist history at , and what country are you from ?

Well I was born in Holland from a Dutch mother and originally Czechoslovakian father. Both have also French and German background. So I'm midwest-European.
I left part of my books in Holland, so I don't think I brought the info with me to Israel where I live since 7 years.

In the U.S.A. there where some fanatic protestants mainly within the Dutch/German reformed Churches. In the mid/late 1800's also in the U.S.A. they started with rase-theories, bloodlines, madam blavatsky whatever tests on human beings. And also in that period the K.K.K. started as a movement within the Dutch/Germanreformed church, untill they where kicked out.
I don't remember exactly but different referents said that Indians where not human and by that also where not able to become Christians.

The Dutch slavetrade was never religiously motivated, the Jews even went from Brazil with the Dutch when they where kicked out by the Portuguese, because there was also inquisition there. The slavetrade was a protestant/catholic/jewish and everybody else's cooperation all together.
Germans had their first concentrationcamps in Afrika in the early 1910's.

It's not that I mean that Indian-camps (I don't know when the first onces started to excist) where exectly and only an result of Christian mindset. But theories against race, etc. did help the dogma.

Since the beginning of Protestantism they also had trials to burn Catholics and other not strait protestants. Calvin did trial some people. And Luther wanted to burn Christians who kept shabbath, etc. so a lot of Hussites where killed. It was maybe not till WW-II that their where realy inquisition-idea's. But WW-II was partly theologically based on Luther, and a lot of Protestant Churches sponsored Hitler also.  I thought during WW-II their where also about 60-million people killed.
#14
freeoholic836
FROM WIKIPEDIA
By the late 1860s,President Ulysses S. Grant pursued a stated "Peace Policy" as a possible solution to the conflict. The policy included a reorganization of the Indian Service, with the goal of relocating various tribes from their ancestral homes to parcels of lands established specifically for their inhabitation. The policy called for the replacement of government officials by religious men, nominated by churches, to oversee the Indian agencies on reservations in order to teach Christianity  to the native tribes. The Quakers were especially active in this policy on reservations. The "civilization" policy was aimed at eventually preparing the tribes for citizenship.

Citizenship (if maybe Christians) was somehow a later stage for Indians.


In this book you can find that commands where made that Indians only had an animal-soul etc. by Pensilvanian Germans:
http://books.google.com/books?id=O6rnKYe...q=&f=false
#15
thank you for this information Yetzirah 231. i had never heard that protestants had not considered Indians human enough to be christians for most christians believe we are to tell all peoples everywhere the good news of Jesus. however being born and raised in texas as was my parents and grandparents i never met a Quaker so am not familiar with their interpretations. i would think surely not many could believe that way . i am sure that some protestants did hurt and kill , if for no other reason but for the things that were inflicted on them by catholics, but not to the extent of the crusades or inquisitions.one of the main things our founding fathers were against was Government run churches. i did hear of the atrocitys of salem which were not the norm in other parts of the birth of this nation .we have had trouble with the kkk and the black panthers and nasis and communists but until the last few years these organisations had not been able to overcome the constitutional government .right now the communists have just about succeeded in destroying our Government and brought us to the verge of another civil war but that isn't a religious event but Godless socialism destroying from within. when Texas fought for independence from mexico one of the contributing factors was that texans were not allowed to own land unless they converted to the catholic religion. ---this morning i left some verses from foxes' book of martyrs on  your comment on sabbath days that i didn't see till this morning.it probably won't show up till tommorrow . it was just about how easy it was to be killed during the inquisitions (such as having different opinions on the sacrament). peace .
#16
Hi Freeoholic836

Well thanks for the reply.
I can understand that from the independence from England, that the U.S.A. didn't want a Church running the U.S.A.
Even the English did forbid the Dutch Sinterklaas to be celebrated at December 5th and the feasts of Wodan with his raindeers by the Swedes in the New-York/Philadelphia area... out of politicall reasons that other traditions and nationalism wouldn't rise... Till everything got merched in 1 festival Christmas...
There where all kind of reasons why the freemasons took the rights of being the founding fathers. So that openness and respect for all monotheisms would come into being.
Communists are not per definition godless, but a lot of protestants went into war with them in WW-II or Vietnam and a lot of them got killed. (not that I mind that much but it's better to see also our own wanted victems).

What brought down your government is partly the some leftwing movements, also the Bush-administration that did gave to much money away to citizens and Halliburton and Standard-Oil + creating wars, but maybe it's mainly the Federal Reserve Bank what is a private-bank and not a communistic organisation. So I don't see especially communists doing it, Freemasons and the U.N. had allready a plan in the 1970's to combine the Euro, Dollar and the Yen, to create one world curency. That's why the Euro also is not backed-up by Gold. And we are now just only at the beginning of a freemarket economy that wants all countries to be equally rich. Communists and Capitalists are working on that, with ''peace''keeping ideologies... nothing much to do with religion.

#17
yes , i voted for bush the first time around but saw he was a deceiver,and i also know the commies and capitalists are blending together for a one world secular system . the forth beast of Daniel. the anti-christ of revelation  1.i believe the white horse is democracy(the crown( was) freedom of religion), 2. the red horse is communism (red china,russia,north korea,cuba ,some of africa ,hugo chavez government etc.) that takes peace from the earth .there are many  persecutions ongoing in china and north korea and africa . 3. radical islam the black horse ;persia ; black gold ( touch not the oil and grain) u.n. oil for food scam.and the pressure arabs put on the u.s. to turn from israel , and to keep the u.n. condemning Israel. 4. the pale horse, rome (the go green scam  to set up the 4th beast Global tax system . causing food riots ,starvations,war and ushering in the final tribulations . the anti christ bringing together a global united religious system made up of all religious systems who will be made to accept homosexuality and abortions and commandments of the  anti-christs ,using sanctions as weapons leading to nukelar holocaust. ---- this is what i " think" will probably happen . (so much for peace)but the Lord will save Israel by having the nations destroy each other . shalom .
#18
Hi freeoholic836

I don't know why you want to discuss those 4 hourses in this way. I can understand where you are comming from, but it doesn't seem to me a very Jewish way of thinking.

Partly:
1. Why is the U.S.A. not the anti-Christ?
2. Is democracy not a Greek term, and is The Almighty not against freedom of religion, at least in Israel.
3.There are also communistic countries, groups who didn't kill a lot of people and even kibbutzim are communistic, and there are a lot of communistic Christians.
4. The Tax-system mainly on food (later on climate-change) was an Austrian idea before WW-II, but in Europe for example genetically modified food and crops are forbidden, It's mainly the U.S.A. who pushed it forward and not Rome. Also the patentrights in the Pharmaceuticall industry where taken over to sponsor the Marshall plans etc. and partly taken from camps in Auschwitz and Nanking, decided so by the CIA in 1942. so it's hard to proof if communism, capitalism or Japan realy sponsored a lot of camp-victems.
The end result for now was that the western world had to be against Serbia as more Russian Orthodox, and in the evening the Kosovo-war stopped, Standard-Oil was allowed to buy parts of IG-Farben again. (people forget that WW-II was partly an American-German trading war, that stopped just after the Kosovo-agreement came around, and some Neuremberg-laws where canceled).

To be continued....
#19
Quote:but the Lord will save Israel by having the nations destroy each other . shalom .

Indeed the Bush family partly with their bank where involved in Hitlers investments, this was part of the free-trade idea, democracy although there was a boycot against Germany.
Nowadays the State of Israel is a democracy, it has a few Arab parties even. some Islamic parties are forbidden in Europe. And in the U.S.A. is a mainly a 2 party system, so it's hard to create a real democracy.
Israeli and Russian intellegence said that Saddam didn't had any weapons of mass destruction AND warned that if an illegal war against Iraq would start, that Iran will become more powerfull. So I guess the Anglo countries with Standard Oil and Shell wanted just to get their properties back that Saddam had stolen, no strategy was there. Even in the documents to rebuild Irak, was written that they should introduce the ''Reichsmark'' it was a document copied from WW-II. about 400Billion of Iraqi money is still in the Federal Reserve Bank, no democracy there.
The U.S.A. also more often took peace from the earth, so I don't understand those horses clames too much.

Off course I'm happy that the U.S.A. is a superpower instead of an Arab-union or so. But I think it's just part of countries that will destroy eachother. Food starvations are idea's from all kind of groups, even in WW-II, Ford and IBM didn't care to trade and to be IN the concentrationcamps with their own workers. And Coca Cola did go around the boycot by introducing Fanta for German Soldiers. The cowboy-idea of Good vs. Bad guys is a nice TV-propaganda but in reality that is seldom the case.

Off course Communism often did result in dictatorship, and is a non-sence theory for people are not that idealistic or want to share. Capitalism is more open about not sharing, like not sharing health insurance. And the U.S. patentsystem is partly the reason why millions suffered and died of AIDS in South America, Afrika etc. while they could made their own medicines if capitalism was not against it. Maybe concentrationcamps also had stopped earlier if a lot of capitalist countries didn't see any benefit in it.

So I hope people learn, instead of claim that they are the good guys. This is also part of Christian History.
#20
sheesh Yetzirah231! it'll take a while to answer all that,but have patience and maybe i can get her done. i might not sound very Jewish because i'm not Jewish as far as i know(which is not very far and not very much ,lol.) i didn't mean to emply your Jewish Kibbutizm was stalin type communizm ,i know your leaders didn't kill Millions of you own people . i'm talking about blood red communism that the book" spy chips" by kathreen Albriet wrote about  saying that stalin killed about 60 million people,most of whom was his own people . you know the red star ,the red flags  waving  , red china and the killing of all female babys and the killing and torture of christians . i know the united states did not do that .at least you can have more than one baby here .but it's the communists in this country who have been the most vocal supporters of abortions ,including clinton and obama .my dad made 4 amphibious landings at north africa and sicily and anzio and italy and he didn't have any shares in standad oil. I don't know about the previous Bushes but senior Bush was shot down and rescued by submarine fighting the Japanese . so maybe he was fighting against his own interests? my reading of History is the U.S. entered the war because of pearl harbor. i know there is plenty of greed in people of all ideologys,and killing too. but the way i see it the judgment of Sodom was  about peverted sex and ideology and the same about the nations God helped overthrow during Israels claiming their promised land .russia's put down of one of their former states was over the oil.and china's newfound thrist for oil bodes danger for everyone in the middle east .the drying up of the euphretes for the kings of the east makes kiber pass a hard place to find flood insurance against the red tide . to be continued.


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