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#21
Avraham Wrote:" Your 'arguments' are entirely hollow, baseless and without any truth or merit."

I simply look out my window. Where is your Messiah? What has he done? We live in a high tech world. Instantly we should know. But all we have is him appearing on grilled chesse sandwitches. 2 thousand years is long enough. The burden of proof is on you. Attack me if you like but that does not prove anything.

Avraham

What has he done? Well, for starters, I think having time even measured by him is a pretty reasonable 'accomplishment', ahem.

And going to the cross for you and everyone else is the greatest thing he or anyone else has ever done for fallen mankind.

And the fact that he is able to occupy so much of even your time, when you claim you don't even believe in him; well, how would you like to try and answer that?

My friend, have you ever read even just a few of the testimonies at JFJ, concerning those Jews who have accepted their Messiah Jesus Christ?

You can start here, and simply for now just simply read about the staff members and their glorious testimonies at the various branches located at the links under the various "Branches" linked to on that page, etc:

http://www.jewsforjesus.org/about

Yet again hardy any example of nothing being done by Christ for "2000 years."

And "attack" you? I've hardly "attacked" you. Yet simply another example of your inability to be honest in all of this. Actually, I'd simply love to see you saved. And I'm sorry, but I have no such "burden of proof" on "me," as it's not my responsibility to prove to you or anyone else that Christ is real. Only the Holy Spirit can do that, God himself.

Yet another example of you not being able to either be honest about this, or not being able to properly rationalize it all.

But let's at least try be honest here. You wouldn't be coming in here so much if you weren't being drawn in some way to Jesus. Yet another example of Christ hardly being nothing even to you. That is, unless you are able to have your life consumed so by 'absolutely nothing', ahem.

The Holy Spirit is indeed working on you, which is why you are in here so much. And I hope you call out to Christ soon. He is indeed the "way, the truth and the life," halleluiah, and he died for you and offers you free eternal life through faith in his blood; halleluiah.

Christ has actually lovingly done abundantly for you, my friend, and all of Israel and the world; halleluiah.

God help you, my friend.


Love and prayers,

Ruht



#22
Avraham Wrote:I simply look out my window. Where is your Messiah? What has he done? We live in a high tech world. Instantly we should know. But all we have is him appearing on grilled chesse sandwitches. 2 thousand years is long enough. The burden of proof is on you. Attack me if you like but that does not prove anything.
This is a poor argument.  Joseph and David (and many more) were both chosen/anointed by G-d in their youth, but were rejected for many years by most of their people.  Their rejection was not a proof of them not being of G-d.  In fact Yeshua's initial rejection should make you think and consider whether he is just like the other prophets initially rejected by Israel, but who ultimately came to be embraced over time.

Blessings in Messiah!
#23
ThirdDay Wrote:
Avraham Wrote:I simply look out my window. Where is your Messiah? What has he done? We live in a high tech world. Instantly we should know. But all we have is him appearing on grilled chesse sandwitches. 2 thousand years is long enough. The burden of proof is on you. Attack me if you like but that does not prove anything.
This is a poor argument.  Joseph and David (and many more) were both chosen/anointed by G-d in their youth, but were rejected for many years by most of their people.  Their rejection was not a proof of them not being of G-d.  In fact Yeshua's initial rejection should make you think and consider whether he is just like the other prophets initially rejected by Israel, but who ultimately came to be embraced over time.

Blessings in Messiah!

Interesting, because Joseph and David both played central roles in the establishment of what we are today. Unlike Jesus, David was an actual King who ruled over Israel. And Joseph rose to become the most powerful man in Egypt next to the Pharaoh, by saving many lives from the seven year famine he laid the foundation that eventually took the Israelites to Sinai.

Jesus on the other hand had a  failed ministry and never kept his promise that he would return. His acccomplishments pale in comparison to Joseph and David.


Poor argument? Simply factual.


Avraham
#24
Avraham Wrote:Interesting, because Joseph and David both played central roles in the establishment of what we are today. Unlike Jesus, David was an actual King who ruled over Israel. And Joseph rose to become the most powerful man in Egypt next to the Pharaoh, by saving many lives from the seven year famine he laid the foundation that eventually took the Israelites to Sinai.

Jesus on the other hand had a  failed ministry and never kept his promise that he would return. His acccomplishments pale in comparison to Joseph and David.


Poor argument? Simply factual.


Avraham

Plus after jc died, the Jews were kicked out of Israel. Hardly a "return".

So let's see. We believe when the Jewish Messiah comes (according to Biblical verses), the Jews will return to Israel and there will be peace in the world.

Since jc has come and gone, the Jews were kicked out of Israel and there have been some of the most horrific wars ever!

Quite the opposite of what the Jewish messiah will help bring.
#25
searchinmyroots Wrote:
Avraham Wrote:Interesting, because Joseph and David both played central roles in the establishment of what we are today. Unlike Jesus, David was an actual King who ruled over Israel. And Joseph rose to become the most powerful man in Egypt next to the Pharaoh, by saving many lives from the seven year famine he laid the foundation that eventually took the Israelites to Sinai.

Jesus on the other hand had a  failed ministry and never kept his promise that he would return. His acccomplishments pale in comparison to Joseph and David.


Poor argument? Simply factual.


Avraham

Plus after jc died, the Jews were kicked out of Israel. Hardly a "return".

So let's see. We believe when the Jewish Messiah comes (according to Biblical verses), the Jews will return to Israel and there will be peace in the world.

Since jc has come and gone, the Jews were kicked out of Israel and there have been some of the most horrific wars ever!

Quite the opposite of what the Jewish messiah will help bring.

Jesus' 'ministry' was hardly "failed." He accomplished precisely what he came to do the first time - to give his life for the sins of Israel and the world, the only way in which we can be saved. Israel was 'destroyed' for a time because of their rejection of Jesus their Messiah, but brought back together again as a nation in the last days, where they would and will one day overcome their initial mistake in rejecting Christ and this time largely come to Christ in the last days. Something that they will do soon.

Christ didn't come to run some lengthy, 'prosperous' earthly kingdom, but to provide salvation through his suffering and death for an eternal kingdom, just as long prophesied:

(Continued...)



#26
(Continue...)


"Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter
, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities
.

Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."
- Isaiah 53

--

I'm sorry you do not yet understand the true role of your Messiah and what his inititial purpose was for concerning his first coming and appearance and ministry and suffering and death. I strongly advise you to learn of it, for it is how the Lord God has provided salvation for Israel and the world.

God help you.


Thank you, Lord Jesus, for your love and eternal salvation through your precious blood.

Ruht
#27
“Jesus' 'ministry' was hardly "failed." He accomplished precisely what he came to do the first time - to give his life for the sins of Israel and the world, the only way in which we can be saved.”

Exactly the opposite of what was to occur when the messiah comes happened during his ministry. That would constitute a failure. Nowhere does it say he is to come twice in our scriptures.

“ Israel was 'destroyed' for a time because of their rejection of Jesus their Messiah, but brought back together again as a nation in the last days”


I’m not sure where you have been hiding for the last 60 years but Israel is once again a nation just as G-D promised us and Jesus had absolutely nothing to do with it.

“ where they would and will one day overcome their initial mistake in rejecting Christ and this time largely come to Christ in the last days. Something that they will do soon.”


One, that is unnecessary since we are already a nation, a Jewish one I might add and its always in the future with you guys. Nothing ever happens now.


“Christ didn't come to run some lengthy, 'prosperous' earthly kingdom, but to provide salvation through his suffering and death for an eternal kingdom, just as long prophesied:”


Then he did not come to be the Messiah because that is exactly what he is to be an earthly King. And if he died for the sins of the world before they were committed then that is a crazy theology. It means Hitler was forgiven before he even committed his heinous crime on Jews.

A god like that needs to and should be rejected.

Who does your thinking for you,

Avraham
#28
Avraham Wrote:“Jesus' 'ministry' was hardly "failed." He accomplished precisely what he came to do the first time - to give his life for the sins of Israel and the world, the only way in which we can be saved.”

Exactly the opposite of what was to occur when the messiah comes happened during his ministry. That would constitute a failure. Nowhere does it say he is to come twice in our scriptures.

Says your interpretation of the Scriptures, or should I say misinterpretation.

Quote:“ Israel was 'destroyed' for a time because of their rejection of Jesus their Messiah, but brought back together again as a nation in the last days”


I’m not sure where you have been hiding for the last 60 years but Israel is once again a nation just as G-D promised us and Jesus had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Tell that to all of the Christian nations that worked together after WWII to bring Israel back together again for the Jews.

Quote:“ where they would and will one day overcome their initial mistake in rejecting Christ and this time largely come to Christ in the last days. Something that they will do soon.”


One, that is unnecessary since we are already a nation, a Jewish one I might add and its always in the future with you guys. Nothing ever happens now.

Well gee, I'd call things like this Jewish-Christian forum something that is happening "now."


Quote:“Christ didn't come to run some lengthy, 'prosperous' earthly kingdom, but to provide salvation through his suffering and death for an eternal kingdom, just as long prophesied:”


Then he did not come to be the Messiah because that is exactly what he is to be an earthly King. And if he died for the sins of the world before they were committed then that is a crazy theology. It means Hitler was forgiven before he even committed his heinous crime on Jews.

A god like that needs to and should be rejected.

Who does your thinking for you,

Avraham

The Scriptures Messiah's kingdom is stated to be one that is supposed to last forever (Psalm 2:6-12; Isaiah 9:6&7; Daniel 2:44; Micah 4:7; etc; etc). Just as Jesus Christ's has and will continue doing so; halleluiah.

And if you truly "reject" Christ so much, then why do you spend so much time in a Christian forum?

Who does your thinking for you?

God help you, my friend.


Love and prayers,

Ruht
#29
Ruht Wrote:
Avraham Wrote:“Jesus' 'ministry' was hardly "failed." He accomplished precisely what he came to do the first time - to give his life for the sins of Israel and the world, the only way in which we can be saved.”

Exactly the opposite of what was to occur when the messiah comes happened during his ministry. That would constitute a failure. Nowhere does it say he is to come twice in our scriptures.

Says your interpretation of the Scriptures, or should I say misinterpretation.

Quote:“ Israel was 'destroyed' for a time because of their rejection of Jesus their Messiah, but brought back together again as a nation in the last days”


I’m not sure where you have been hiding for the last 60 years but Israel is once again a nation just as G-D promised us and Jesus had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Tell that to all of the Christian nations that worked together after WWII to bring Israel back together again for the Jews.

Quote:“ where they would and will one day overcome their initial mistake in rejecting Christ and this time largely come to Christ in the last days. Something that they will do soon.”


One, that is unnecessary since we are already a nation, a Jewish one I might add and its always in the future with you guys. Nothing ever happens now.

Well gee, I'd call things like this Jewish-Christian forum something that is happening "now."


Quote:“Christ didn't come to run some lengthy, 'prosperous' earthly kingdom, but to provide salvation through his suffering and death for an eternal kingdom, just as long prophesied:”


Then he did not come to be the Messiah because that is exactly what he is to be an earthly King. And if he died for the sins of the world before they were committed then that is a crazy theology. It means Hitler was forgiven before he even committed his heinous crime on Jews.

A god like that needs to and should be rejected.

Who does your thinking for you,

Avraham

The Scriptures Messiah's kingdom is stated to be one that is supposed to last forever (Psalm 2:6-12; Isaiah 9:6&7; Daniel 2:44; Micah 4:7; etc; etc). Just as Jesus Christ's has and will continue doing so; halleluiah.

And if you truly "reject" Christ so much, then why do you spend so much time in a Christian forum?

Who does your thinking for you?

God help you, my friend.


Love and prayers,

Ruht

Your responses or lack there of speak for themselves. It's a discussion forum all are welcome.

Why do you visit atheist websites? Curious?



Avraham
#30
Ruht Wrote:"Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter
, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities
.

Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."
- Isaiah 53


Ruht

It looks as if you have the "mis" interpretation here. The above shows your lack of understanding. How you possibly believe what you read if you don't even know the proper meaning of the words??


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