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Nations for Gesus
#1
As a Jew I did read the Christian Testament in different languages.
And also came often on the text that in Jesus it doesn't mather if you are Jew, Greek, woman or man. Off course women and men are still different.

But if it doesn't mather that much, why than even create a group ''Jews for Jesus'' (even the name is a trendmark as if others outside the group can't call themselves Jews for Jesus?).
Why is it so important to be Jewish as a Jew for Jesus? Is that still special? Why do the JFJ's have to go especially to Jews to borther them if Greeks are the same?

Why not join other groups like you can find:
''workers for Jesus''
''hookers for Jesus''
''nations for Jesus''
''world for Jesus'' etc. if it doesn't mather anyway if YOU are Jewish or not.

That they ''need'' to go to Jews is one obsession, but if youre identity in Christ is not important, why call yourself a Jew for Jesus???


#2
"And also came often on the text that in Jesus it doesn't mather if you are Jew, Greek, woman or man. ..."

Yetzirah, it doesn't matter how many languages you read the New Testament in, if you don't pay close attention to the fact that the New Testament does not say that.  Saying, I do not have a coin in my pocket, is much different than saying, it does not matter if I have a coin in my pocket or not.  You must be referring to Galatians 3:28, which says that there is no Jew or Greek in Christ.  This refers to spiritual reality, not physical reality.  Physically, Jews and Greeks do exist.  Jews have the priority to have the Torah written on their hearts (...to the Jew first, and also to the Greek - Romans 1:16, for example).  The meaning of Galatians 3:28 is that the new heart created with the Torah written on it is the same whether the one receiving it was a Jew or a Greek, male or female.

Focusing on Jews receiving this new heart has two reasons.  One is that the New Testament repeatedly, emphatically teaches that Jews have priority in receiving the benefits of the Messiah.  The other reason is that many Jews are going around saying that Jesus is not for Jews.  If we had a large movement claiming that working men could not become believers in Jesus, then we would have a group Working Men For Jesus, too.
#3
We don't. We are one big family. I am not Jewish. Yet I am here. Another fellow I know, he's not Gentile, but he's connected with a similar Gentile organisation with I would say have zero Jews there. One big family. It dont matter one bit whether ur Jew or non-Jew.

You are looking at the vast expanse of the stars with a microscope. If you look at the big picture things become much clearer. JFJ is just one movement under the rubric of Jesus. There are plenty of others. Some preach to the Chinese. OThers to Africans. Others to prostitutes and who ever else they can find. Others to international students.
#4
Hi ThomasDGW

Quote:Yetzirah, it doesn't matter how many languages you read the New Testament in, if you don't pay close attention to the fact that the New Testament does not say that.  
I agree that the ChristianTestament does not say that. But often Christians explain it that way partly as the next commentator claims.

The CT also doesn't say that it's meant only spiritually.
And if so, that Spititually it doesn't mather? I understand that all Gentiles, man and woman need Torah and Gods rulings and blessings. But Spiritually Jews also got specific tasks. And I'm a bit affraid that Jews within JFJ forget or mixup what their task is, and Christians mixup what their tasks are too, aswell practically as spiritually.

Besides that, is it not King David in Psalms that sings: create in me a new heart O, God... Take not thy Holy Spirit from me... Cast me not away from thy presence... For You are my Joy and Salvation...
Well The Almighty is our Joy and Salvation, he gave us the Holy Spirit and a new heart at the right times, allready then. So we allready focussed and often got new hearts even before Christianity did excist.
For the rest than I have to blame the Christian Testament(s writers) for creating idea's that there are Christian benefits of the Messiah.

O.k. I can understand your reasoning about many Jews go around, telling that He's not. And because of that you ''have'' to show it.

Workers for Jesus do excist, like the other groups that I mentioned. So you can still join them too, becomes a bit busy, but o.k.

#5
Hi Swift booty,

Quote:We don't. We are one big family. I am not Jewish. Yet I am here. Another fellow I know, he's not Gentile, but he's connected with a similar Gentile organisation with I would say have zero Jews there. One big family. It dont matter one bit whether ur Jew or non-Jew.

You are looking at the vast expanse of the stars with a microscope. If you look at the big picture things become much clearer. JFJ is just one movement under the rubric of Jesus. There are plenty of others. Some preach to the Chinese. OThers to Africans. Others to prostitutes and who ever else they can find. Others to international students.

All right, good that Christians do work a lot for others too.
Actually for us Jews it does mather and hurt if Jews go outside our promise and task, to work in ''totally other'' organisations of religion. I mean a Jew can be a good humanistic- or relief- or social worker, but shouldn't mix up his believes. Plus we got the tasks of priesthood etc, not that we are now able to fullfill things, but Christians start to believe that they are called for all kind of ''Old''Testamentical things that The Almighty specifically said only for Jews to do so.
So in our view Christianity tries to mixup Judaism and Jews.

Also the Idea of one big family is different in Judaism, I mean Arabs are our cousins, standing closer to us than most Christians aswell in tradition as genetic. Only in some other things Christians stand close to us, and they didn't get all kind of the same eternal blessings.
Some Afrikans and Chinese might be Semitic. They might have other blessings than the other descendents of Ham or Japhet. Christianity believes more in Egalite, Fraternite and Liberte. But it was God who decided the promisses for descendents.
#6
"So we allready focussed and often got new hearts even before Christianity did excist.
For the rest than I have to blame the Christian Testament(s writers) for creating idea's that there are Christian benefits of the Messiah."

Yetzirah, you gave me another version of "we, David and I, got new hearts, without Jesus."  Just a minute.  Just because David got a new heart, he was a Jew, and you are a Jew, how do you know you got one, too?  Second, how do you know David got his new heart without Jesus?  Well, David lived before Jesus was born in Bethlehem, but remember that Jesus claimed to have met Abraham (John 8:56).  It is the teaching of the New Testament that the benefits of what Jesus accomplished were available before Jesus came to a certain extent.  In other words, God from His eternal perspective provided blessings and salvation because of what Jesus would do.  How was it possible for God to forgive David's sin?  The rabbis try to belittle his sin, that it was not really adultery because Bathsheba was really destined to be David's wife, but the New Testament says that the sins committed before Jesus were forgiven on the basis of Jesus death and the completion of Jesus' death explain how God could forgive sins and remain just (Romans 3:25).
#7
"That they ''need'' to go to Jews is one obsession, but if youre identity in Christ is not important, why call yourself a Jew for Jesus???"


It really is silly. It's like calling yourself Puerto Ricans for Buddah.

Avraham
#8
Hi ThomasDGW
Quote:Yetzirah, you gave me another version of "we, David and I, got new hearts, without Jesus."  Just a minute.  Just because David got a new heart, he was a Jew, and you are a Jew, how do you know you got one, too?  Second, how do you know David got his new heart without Jesus?  Well, David lived before Jesus was born in Bethlehem, but remember that Jesus claimed to have met Abraham (John 8:56).  It is the teaching of the New Testament that the benefits of what Jesus accomplished were available before Jesus came to a certain extent.  In other words, God from His eternal perspective provided blessings and salvation because of what Jesus would do.  How was it possible for God to forgive David's sin?  The rabbis try to belittle his sin, that it was not really adultery because Bathsheba was really destined to be David's wife, but the New Testament says that the sins committed before Jesus were forgiven on the basis of Jesus death and the completion of Jesus' death explain how God could forgive sins and remain just (Romans 3:25).

Indeed I can build a lot of ''theology'' around this.
First of all, no Christian knows than that he got a new heart just because another Christian got a new heart. That's indeed a logical conclusion, there is no proof, only God knows.
Abraham never claimed to have met Jesus, so we just have to believe Jesus in this case without any witness.

''The teachings of the NT''? well it's never said that it had to become a book, so I guess you mean it where the teachings of Jesus that caused it all. Well than maybe also my sins are forgiven by those teachings, while like Abraham I never have to admit that I met Jesus or a lookalike.
David asked a new heart from God, not from Jesus, so we still should ask it from God, I think.
And if Jews sins are forgiven anyway on the basis of Jesus death, even before he came, why did he had to come than anyway. For it's also written that before the creation of the earth, the LAMB was allready slaughtered. So MAYBE the sins of all people in the Torah, where after that the LAMB was allready Slaughtered.
Then still it's not written that we should worship the lamb.
#9
"And if Jews sins are forgiven anyway on the basis of Jesus death, even before he came, why did he had to come than anyway. For it's also written that before the creation of the earth, the LAMB was allready slaughtered. So MAYBE the sins of all people in the Torah, where after that the LAMB was allready Slaughtered."

You are referring to Revelation 13:8, and I Peter 1:20 also deals with this issue.  This gets into eternal perspectives versus time perspectives, and is quite similar to Abram's situation when God told him that He had made him the father of a multitude in Genesis 17:5.  You could just as easily say that since God had made Abram a father of a multitude, then it did not matter if  Abraham had any more children, that Ishmael was enough.  However, although Abraham was already the father of a multitude in God's plan, it still had to be worked out in the time of history to be fulfilled.

In a similar way, although the Lamb of God was already slain and those to receive the benefit of the atonement were already written in God's book of life when the earth was created, it still has to be worked out in history.  David's sins were forgiven because of the sacrifice of the Messiah, which was still future in the time of Isaiah, but then the sacrifice must still have taken place in history, or David's forgiveness would have been illegitimate.

"First of all, no Christian knows than that he got a new heart just because another Christian got a new heart."

Correct.  Just because a man gets baptized and joins a Christian church, does not mean that he has received a new heart.

"That's indeed a logical conclusion, there is no proof, only God knows."

No, there is proof.  When a person finds that he has new desires for the Law of God that before were just religious duties, that is proof (ref: Romans 7:22).  It might be hard to prove to other people, since they cannot see the heart.
#10
"The rabbis try to belittle his sin,"

Which Rabbi's? Not any I know. In fact they go out of their way to point out that incredibily flawed people can achieve amazing things. One does not have to be  perfect to serve G-D's purpose.

Did you make that up?


Avraham


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