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Where was Jacob buried?
#1
I have been learning so much, in the past 3 weeks, about "the truth".  My partner in Torah has been challenging me to really read what the Bible says.  He asked me where was Jacob buried:

I said in the New Testament:  Acts 7:14 After this, Joseph sent for his father Jacob and his whole family, seventy-five in all. 15 Then Jacob went down to Egypt, where he and our ancestors died. 16 Their bodies were brought back to Shechem and placed in the tomb that Abraham had bought from the sons of Hamor at Shechem for a certain sum of money.

He said now look at the Jewish Bible " the old testament": Genesis 50:12 So Jacob’s sons did as he had commanded them: 13 They carried him to the land of Canaan and buried him in the cave in the field of Machpelah, near Mamre, which Abraham had bought along with the field as a burial place from Ephron the Hittite. 14 After burying his father, Joseph returned to Egypt, together with his brothers and all the others who had gone with him to bury his father.

Genesis 23:19 Afterward Abraham buried his wife Sarah in the cave in the field of Machpelah near Mamre (which is at Hebron) in the land of Canaan. 20 So the field and the cave in it were deeded to Abraham by the Hittites as a burial site.

That is just one of the discrepancies in the New Testament.  Jacob is buried in Hebron, not Shechem.  
#2
This has been discussed here before.  It says that "they" were buried in Shechem.  I view the "they" as referring to "our fathers", not to include "he", Jacob.  Jacob was buried in the field of Machpelah, and Stephen does not say otherwise.
#3
This is the comment of John  Wesley's Bible Notes in my BibleDatabase:

7:16  And were carried over to Shechem - It seems that St. Stephen,  rapidly running over so many circumstances of history, has not  leisure (nor was it needful where they were so well known) to recite them all distinctly.  Therefore he here contracts into one, two different sepulchres, places, and purchases, so as in the former history, to name the buyer, omitting the seller, in the latter, to name the seller, omitting the buyer.  Abraham bought a burying place of the children of Heth, Gen. xxiii. #Gen 23:1 |- 20  There Jacob was buried.  Jacob bought a field of the children of Hamor.  There Joseph was buried.  You see here, how St. Stephen contracts these two purchases into one. This concise manner of speaking, strange as it seems to us, was common among the Hebrews; particularly, when in a case notoriously known, the speaker mentioned but part of the story, and left the rest, which would have interrupted the current of his discourse, to be supplied in the mind of the hearer.  And laid in the sepulchre that Abraham bought - The first land which these strangers bought was for a sepulchre.  They sought for a country in heaven.  Perhaps the whole sentence might be rendered thus: So Jacob went down into Egypt and died, he and our fathers, and were carried over to Shechem, and laid by the sons (that is, decendants) of Hamor, the father of Shechem, in the sepulchre that Abraham bought for a sum of money.

I have no idea what the words I have placed in bold type mean. Joseph and his brothers buried Jacob.
#4
Rabbi Yisroel ben Avrohom Wrote:This is the comment of John  Wesley's Bible Notes in my BibleDatabase:

7:16  And were carried over to Shechem - It seems that St. Stephen,  rapidly running over so many circumstances of history, has not  leisure (nor was it needful where they were so well known) to recite them all distinctly.  Therefore he here contracts into one, two different sepulchres, places, and purchases, so as in the former history, to name the buyer, omitting the seller, in the latter, to name the seller, omitting the buyer.  Abraham bought a burying place of the children of Heth, Gen. xxiii. #Gen 23:1 |- 20  There Jacob was buried.  Jacob bought a field of the children of Hamor.  There Joseph was buried.  You see here, how St. Stephen contracts these two purchases into one. This concise manner of speaking, strange as it seems to us, was common among the Hebrews; particularly, when in a case notoriously known, the speaker mentioned but part of the story, and left the rest, which would have interrupted the current of his discourse, to be supplied in the mind of the hearer.  And laid in the sepulchre that Abraham bought - The first land which these strangers bought was for a sepulchre.  They sought for a country in heaven.  Perhaps the whole sentence might be rendered thus: So Jacob went down into Egypt and died, he and our fathers, and were carried over to Shechem, and laid by the sons (that is, decendants) of Hamor, the father of Shechem, in the sepulchre that Abraham bought for a sum of money.

I have no idea what the words I have placed in bold type mean. Joseph and his brothers buried Jacob.
Very well spoken, I believe also the interpretive usage of sons and fathers seem to play discourse in the readers understanding as well; father could be interpreted Abraham,or forefathers, as son's could also be conceived ;sons of Abraham, in a collective mannerism .there was a detailed response to this scripture in an earlier thread, but the proficiency of your Hebrew seems to bring a freshened light upon the dialogue. toda raba, good to hear from you again Rabbi Avrohom!
#5
ThomasDGW Wrote:This has been discussed here before.  It says that "they" were buried in Shechem.  I view the "they" as referring to "our fathers", not to include "he", Jacob.  Jacob was buried in the field of Machpelah, and Stephen does not say otherwise.

Yet the Bible is supposed to be the Word of G-d, so where does this mistake come from?
#6
Rabbi Yisroel ben Avrohom Wrote:This is the comment of John  Wesley's Bible Notes in my BibleDatabase:

7:16  And were carried over to Shechem - It seems that St. Stephen,  rapidly running over so many circumstances of history, has not  leisure (nor was it needful where they were so well known) to recite them all distinctly.  Therefore he here contracts into one, two different sepulchres, places, and purchases, so as in the former history, to name the buyer, omitting the seller, in the latter, to name the seller, omitting the buyer.  Abraham bought a burying place of the children of Heth, Gen. xxiii. #Gen 23:1 |- 20  There Jacob was buried.  Jacob bought a field of the children of Hamor.  There Joseph was buried.  You see here, how St. Stephen contracts these two purchases into one. This concise manner of speaking, strange as it seems to us, was common among the Hebrews; particularly, when in a case notoriously known, the speaker mentioned but part of the story, and left the rest, which would have interrupted the current of his discourse, to be supplied in the mind of the hearer.  And laid in the sepulchre that Abraham bought - The first land which these strangers bought was for a sepulchre.  They sought for a country in heaven.  Perhaps the whole sentence might be rendered thus: So Jacob went down into Egypt and died, he and our fathers, and were carried over to Shechem, and laid by the sons (that is, decendants) of Hamor, the father of Shechem, in the sepulchre that Abraham bought for a sum of money.

I have no idea what the words I have placed in bold type mean. Joseph and his brothers buried Jacob.

I do not know what you are trying to tell me.  Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me.
#7
Rabbi Yisroel ben Avrohom Wrote:and laid by the sons (that is, decendants) of Hamor, the father of Shechem, in the sepulchre that Abraham bought for a sum of money.

I have no idea what the words I have placed in bold type mean. Joseph and his brothers buried Jacob.
The interpretation of translation of scripture reads;Acts 7;15,16- "So Jacob went down into Egypt, and died, he, and our fathers, and were carried over into Sychem, and laid in the sepulchre that Abraham bought for a sum of money from the sons of Emmor the father of Sychem."
However, in Genesis 23:16-18, Abraham is said to have purchased the field of Machpelah, near Mamre, from Ephron the Hittite. In Joshua 24:32, we are told that it was Jacob who purchased a field from the sons of Hamor [Emmor], the father of Shechem [Sychem].

To understand what is involved in this portion of the sermon,as you clarified so well Avrohom, is to understand  Stephen's audience as well, and the mannerism of the cultural dialogue, as seen in Genesis as well referred as "telescoping";and involved the brief mentioning and uniting of related events which nevertheless may have occurred at different times or places. It was employed generally when the speaker needed to impart a large amount of information in a short amount of time.

Acts relates to us that Stephen's original dispute was with certain Jews from Cyrenacia, Alexandria, Cilicia, and Asia, as well as members of what was called "the synagogue of the Libertines". It was these who bribed false witnesses to testify against Stephen, and it was these who brought Stephen up before Caiaphas and the council in Jerusalem. What needs to be understood about these particular opponents of Stephen is that not only were they Jews, but they were HELLENISTIC Jews. We are told that this crowd consisted of Jews from several places where Hellenism was strong. Alexandria, of course, was the second city of the Empire, and was a noteworthy centre of Hellenistic learning. It also had a large Jewish colony which was to a greater or lesser degree influenced by the Hellenism of the city and the rest of Egypt. Likewise, Cyrenacia, modern Libya, was a thoroughly Hellenistic region, having been colonised by Greeks at Cyrene centuries before. Asia refers specifically to Asia Minor, where such notable Greek cities as Ephesus, Miletus, Pergamon, and Thyatira were located, and was also long renowned as a centre of Greek civilisation. Cilicia was the region around Tarsus in Asia Minor, and was also heavily Hellenised. Lastly, the members of the "synagogue of the Libertines" were Jewish men who either were, or were the descendants of, freed slaves. In the Roman Empire, slaves were often tasked with the duty of educating and tutoring the children of the rich, and as such, many of them were thoroughly trained in the arts and rhetoric of Greco-Roman society.

#8
jacksgramma Wrote:I do not know what you are trying to tell me.  Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me.

Agreeing with you.
#9
"Yet the Bible is supposed to be the Word of G-d, so where does this mistake come from?"

I do not believe that Stephen made a mistake.  He said "he and our fathers" and then said "they" were buried in Shechem.  You are assuming that "they" refers to both Jacob and his sons, but that is not necessarily true.  I believe it only refers to his sons.  I cannot prove to a skeptic that Stephen meant only the sons when he said "they", but on the other hand the skeptic cannot prove that Stephen meant to include Jacob being buried in Shechem.  The skeptic might find Stephen guilty of error if I cannot prove him innocent. I hold him innocent since he is not proved guilty.

The quote from John Wesley that Rabbi Yisroel posted is saying that Stephen was being brief and thus skipping details.  This would explain why he might rush to saying "they" were buried in Shechem without clarifying that he was not including Jacob.  On the detail of who bought the burial place in Shechem. I believe that Stepehn was quite correct that it was Abraham.  Genesis 33:19 says that Jacob bought his dwelling place from those people.  Abraham earlier must have bought a burial place there, but this fact was not recorded in the Torah.

I did not find that Rabbi Yisroel is taking sides on Stephen's accuracy one way of the other. Why do I give Stephen the benefit of the doubt and hold him innocent until proved guilty?  For one thing, Acts 7:55 claims that he was filled with the Holy Spirit.  Next, as I studied this speech of Stephen some years ago, I was dumbfounded at its masterfulness at how he answered a very tricky question in a way that only Jesus matched.  Therefore, I am not about to accept that he would made such simple bumbles as he is accused of.

#10
“In the cave that is in the field of Machpelah, which is before
Mamre in the Land of Canaan which Abraham bought with the
Field of Ephron the Hittite as a possession for a burial place.
[BC 1967]
There they buried Abraham and Sarah his wife, there they buried
Isaac and Rebekah his wife, and there I buried Leah.
“The field and the cave that is there were purchased from the sons
of Heth.”
[GEN 50:13-] For his sons carried him to the land of Canaan, and
buried him in the cave of the field of Machpelah, before Mamre,
which Abraham bought with the field from Ephron the Hittite as
property for a burial place.

Note: Out of the Patriarchs and Matriarchs, only Rachel is
missing. Rachel died in childbirth on the way to Bethlehem and
buried near by. [AM 2208 (BC 1844)].
She had two children, Joseph, born AM 2200 (BC 1852), and
Benjamin, born AM 2208 (BC 1844).

THE LIBERATION OF HEBRON AD 1967

The 1ST Jew to enter the “Cave of Machpelah,” was Chief Rabbi,
the late Major General, Shlomo Goren; Israel Defense Forces.
There is a Mosque over the site erected 700 years ago by the
Mamelukes who conquered Hebron; AD 1291 – AD 1516.
Jews were not allowed past the 7TH Step of an outside staircase.
There are 3 rooms; Ohel Avraham, Ohel Yitzhak, and Ohel Ya’akov.
Jews have no access to Ohel Yitzhak, the largest room with the
exception of 10 days/year.
Hebron was liberated in AD 1967 but the Mosque is still run by
Muslim Waqf Religious Trust; Tomb of the Patriarchs.


SHALOM!
Ray       :razz:


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