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Let me ask you a question:
#1
What is the difference between a Christian-Jew and a Jewish-Christian?

Before we get off on the wrong foot - let me say a few things - I have asked this question before 'What is the difference between being a Jew and being Jewish?' One can be 'born' a Jew but one cannot be 'born' Jewish - can one? It gets trickier when we look at this question 'What is the difference between being a Christian and being Christian?' One cannot be 'born' (of the flesh) a Christian but one must be ‘born’ (of the Spirit) Christian? Please take these ‘points’ into consideration before you form an opinion and answer my topic question. Thank You.
#2
Oliver Wrote:What is the difference between a Christian-Jew and a Jewish-Christian?

Before we get off on the wrong foot - let me say a few things - I have asked this question before 'What is the difference between being a Jew and being Jewish?' One can be 'born' a Jew but one cannot be 'born' Jewish - can one? It gets trickier when we look at this question 'What is the difference between being a Christian and being Christian?' One cannot be 'born' (of the flesh) a Christian but one must be ‘born’ (of the Spirit) Christian? Please take these ‘points’ into consideration before you form an opinion and answer my topic question. Thank You.

Oh for heavens sake!

Avraham
#3
Avraham Wrote:
Oliver Wrote:What is the difference between a Christian-Jew and a Jewish-Christian?

Before we get off on the wrong foot - let me say a few things - I have asked this question before 'What is the difference between being a Jew and being Jewish?' One can be 'born' a Jew but one cannot be 'born' Jewish - can one? It gets trickier when we look at this question 'What is the difference between being a Christian and being Christian?' One cannot be 'born' (of the flesh) a Christian but one must be ‘born’ (of the Spirit) Christian? Please take these ‘points’ into consideration before you form an opinion and answer my topic question. Thank You.

Oh for heavens sake!

Avraham
REALLY - By accident - this question ties into your 'last' thread - I was beginning to think we were actually on the same page - for once - but - apparently not - pity...
#4
Oliver Wrote:
Avraham Wrote:
Oliver Wrote:What is the difference between a Christian-Jew and a Jewish-Christian?

Before we get off on the wrong foot - let me say a few things - I have asked this question before 'What is the difference between being a Jew and being Jewish?' One can be 'born' a Jew but one cannot be 'born' Jewish - can one? It gets trickier when we look at this question 'What is the difference between being a Christian and being Christian?' One cannot be 'born' (of the flesh) a Christian but one must be ‘born’ (of the Spirit) Christian? Please take these ‘points’ into consideration before you form an opinion and answer my topic question. Thank You.

Oh for heavens sake!

Avraham
REALLY - By accident - this question ties into your 'last' thread - I was beginning to think we were actually on the same page - for once - but - apparently not - pity...

It's the Christian Mumbo Jumbo WOO_WOO speaking I was addressing. Saying a lot that means nothing. I agree with what you say concerning being Jewish etc.

Avraham
#5
LOOK - this is what I'm asking - my free on-line dictionary lumps Christian-Jews and Jewish-Christians together with the 'Judaizers' of the first century church - I 'feel' there must be a difference - something along the lines that Christian-Jews are Jews who profess 'belief' in Christ but who do not keep Torah as a Jewish-Jew might yet without completely giving up their 'Jewishness' - but Jewish-Christians are Jews or Gentiles who profess 'belief' in Christ and who do keep Torah as a Jewish-Jew might (these might be considered 'Judaizers' and 'Judaized') - the operative 'meaning' of 'Jewish' being someone who keeps Torah - but - I'm not able to make a definitive statement - any comments?
#6
I know I am wading into waters I should probably avoid, and I am sure many here have noticed as well that this is a debate that takes many forms on this forum and is full of deep emotions on all sides.

The main problem, (yes I know I am grossly oversimplifying) I believe, is the base nature of Christianity as a religion is one of belief whereas Judaism exists as a people/tribe/ethnicity AND a religion simultaneously -- which means whenever you attempt to combine the terms you are truly comparing items that are fundamentally different. No wonder this is such a problematic conversation in all its forms.

So let me open up Pandora's box and try this: If you are a Jew as defined within Judaism as a Jew and you do not believe in Christ as your Savior, you are a Jew. If you believe that Christ is your Savior you are a Christian. If you believe that Christ is your Savior and you were a born Jew or have any Jewish roots or ethnicity, you are a Christian that was born a Jew or a Christian with Jewish ethnicity.

This and 10 Shekels will get you a Goldstar at my local Pub. L'chaim everyone.

Moishe
#7
To follow God now whether born a Jew of Gentile you must have Jesus in your life.
M't:9:17: Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

There is a New Covenant as stated in Jeremiah and given at the Last Supper.

Surely Israel is from Abraham's seed but the seed without the rivers of Living Water will die without the Redeemer. We become new, Born Again from above filled with new wine.

Joh:3:7: Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

JUDAISM
#8
To follow God now whether born a Jew of Gentile you must have Jesus in your life.
M't:9:17: Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

There is a New Covenant as stated in Jeremiah and given at the Last Supper.

Surely Israel is from Abraham's seed but the seed without the rivers of Living Water will die without the Redeemer. We become new, Born Again from above filled with new wine.

Joh:3:7: Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

JUDAISM
#9
Well, now I see the question...
A Jew is indeed born a Jew, with the covenant and blessings that belong to it. For The Almighty promissed it towards a nation. Still a Jew can live less Jewish, or go totally against it, and MAYBE loose certain parts for there were also curses given.

A Christian is not born into a nation.
Besides that people are not born with a certain faith, or judgemental system. I know that some Christian groups that children are born in sin etc.
No, we got the curse to give birth in pain, to work the land with sweath etc. BUT at Noah's time The Almighty said that He saw that people are evil from Childhood on. NOT since they were born. A Child learns allready very early to say prayers, to be jealous, greedy and mean, and to make up his own 'world'view, interpretation etc.
So somebody can act Jewishly or as a Christian since childhood on, after he learned some things.

SO, Christians might focus to much on Birth OR Baptism as a replacement of the circumcision of the flesh. The Circumcision is a covenant, and not some kind of rebirth. The is no connection to personal birth at a circumcision.
That is also why in Judaism most ''watercleansings'' are NOT when somebody is just born. The spiritual process only can be ripe after a child learned things and somewhat decided for himself. Or comes at moments that The Almighty commanded to clean oneself for festivals for example.

Besides that, other nations had blessings too: Cham and Yafeth had specific blessings. And also the Ishmaelites etc. So there excist blessings as other nations. Spriritual blessings are often different.
But in Judaism some tribes like the Levites and Judah got special spritual or Kingship blessings.
As well as somebody can't just start to act to be Kingish or Highpriestish. Chamites can't just start to act Kingish, or Jewish but they can become Christians it they want to.
#10
To make something else more clear: The curses for example that were given as warnings when we as Jews entered the land of Israel. Are still curses towards Jews. So even the Curses or how we have to live with it or deal with it, are dealth in within a Jewish way. Those blessings or curses are not given specifically to other nations. NOR are the judgements given to others to curse us with it whenever they want. The Almighty is the judge, and we don't need Ishmaelite or Christian judgements to command us how to be Jewish. So even when we are ''bad'' it's our problem towards God, ourself and the other nations, we have to solve it than in a Jewish way.


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