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The Restrainer is the Holy Spirit, Not Michael the Archangel
#11
John 3:16 Wrote:You must not have heard of Jeanne Calment.....she lived longer than 120 years of age,..and of course,..you should keep in mind that the Lord is no respecter of persons.
Therefore your interpretation is incorrect.

I don't think Jeanne Calment disproves anything. Some people live less than 120 years but as an estimation it's a big difference from people living 900 years. Now the significance of Moses living 120 years as a symbol of mankinds days in Jubilee years is interesting. That seems consistent with the way the bible works.
Your comment about God not being a respector of persons was out of context and has nothing to do with this discussion.

Enoch was a descendant of Cain. Noah is a descendant of Seth. Seth is listed in the generations of Adam, a son of man.
Cain is not listed in the generation of Adam, so his descendants would be the "sons of God", or Nephelim. Which would make Enoch a Nephelim.

I think Jew and Gentile are in the same boat with Noah. Nephelim are something else, maybe the royals.
#12
My mistake, there are two Enoch's. One is the descendant of Cain and the other a descendant of Seth. The descendant of Seth is the one who "walked with God".
#13
Who is it, after all, that really restrains sin? The answer found in the Bible is that God is the one who restrains sin. In Genesis 6:3 it is declared that the Spirit of God was restraining sin in the days of Noah. It was predicted that instead of striving with sin God would judge it in the flood.

In the Book of Job it is recorded that Satan wanted to afflict Job, but God had built a hedge about him. Satan testified that he was restrained by God from trying Job. When Satan accused Job of serving God because God had been so good to him, God took down part of the hedge and permitted Satan to take away all of Job’s property and all of his children in one day. He left Job only his wife and his own life. When the Lord called Satan’s attention to Job’s faithfulness in affliction, Satan said it was because God had preserved Job’s health. Then God permitted Satan to afflict Job’s body, but not to take his life. Satan then brought severe physical affliction upon Job, and Job was in torment in his body. But in it all Satan could not go any further than God permitted him. Satan was restrained by God Himself.

It would not be possible for any believer to do any work for God if it were not for God’s protecting hand. It is God who restrains. God may use varying means. He may use the government which maintains a certain amount of law and order. In the end, it is God who does it. It is God who provides protection for the Christian.

More specifically, in this present age it is the Spirit of God who provides protection. As it is revealed in Genesis 6:3, the Spirit of God strives with men and opposes Satan and his program and his hatred of the children of God.

While the Holy Spirit has always worked in times past, on the Day of Pentecost the Spirit of God came in a special way. Christ, who had always existed and was always present in the world, came into the world, was born of the Virgin Mary, and in a special sense left the world when He ascended and went back to heaven, even though He said, “Lo, I am with you always.” So also the Spirit of God came on the Day of Pentecost and now indwells the church and is present in the world. The Spirit will return to heaven at the rapture.

Continued:
#14
The most natural explanation of the taking away of the restrainer is to identify this particular action with the time when Christ will come to take out His church. If the Spirit of God indwells the church and the church is taken out of the world, then the Spirit of God will also be taken out of the world. This does not mean that the Spirit will not continue working in the world in some way; but it will mean a reversal of Pentecost. Just as the Spirit came on Pentecost, so He will leave when Christ takes the church out of the world.

The very removal of both the church and the Spirit from the world will release the world to sin as it never has before. The presence of believers in the world exerts a great influence upon the wicked world. Christians who have stood for civic righteousness and law and order will no longer be in evidence. For the time being at least, there will be no one except unsaved people to run government. The net result will be that evil will be manifested beyond anything known in the history of man. The “mystery of iniquity” is, of course, already working as mentioned in verse 7, but the Holy Spirit is now restraining sin until He is taken away at the translation of the church. When this occurs, it is revealed in verse 8 that “then shall that Wicked one be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.”

There are, then, three good reasons why the Day of the Lord and the tribulation time could not have begun in the time the Thessalonians lived: first, the apostasy had not come; second, the man of sin had not been revealed; and, third, the Spirit of God had not been taken away. In a large sense, those unfulfilled conditions are still true today. While there is apostasy in our midst, the man of sin has not been revealed, and the Holy Spirit has not been removed. All of this constitutes real evidence that the tribulation time has not come and that it cannot come until Christ comes and takes His church home to glory.

#15
The holy spirit restrains some kinds of sin but not all sin, or there would be no sin. The holy spirit allows someone to believe in Jesus. That person reads the Gospel and tries to follow Jesus, thereby becoming more righteous. I'd agree with that. But then you make a leap to governments as restrainers of sin, more specifically Christian governments. If anything the Holy spirit restrains government from becoming absolutely tyrannical. Religious people are the most likely to become tyrants when given power. Hell, look at the pope when he had power or the people who crucified Jesus. Those are the ones to watch.
#16
"Nothing here states that Michael is taken out of the way."

Revelation 12 explains what it means to stand up: to go from earth to heaven to cast out Satan, thus being out of the way on earth.
#17
Oh I see it now. The mystery of lawlessness is the strong delusion that God puts on those who would not believe the truth. Paul calls this same phenomenon a mystery in Romans 11 also.

2 thess 2:11 "For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness."

So it's a warning not to listen to them who are under the delusion. They will speak all manner of lies because of the delusion. Even that the day of the Lord has already come.

3Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for [that day will not come] until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessnessa is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
#18
Edwatd Wrote:Oh I see it now.  The mystery of lawlessness is the strong delusion that God puts on those who would not believe the truth.  Paul calls this same phenomenon a mystery in Romans 11 also.

2 thess 2:11 "For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness."

  So it's a warning not to listen to them who are under the delusion.  They will speak all manner of lies because of the delusion.  Even that the day of the Lord has already come.

3Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for [that day will not come] until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessnessa is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
Idea:exclaim:Exclamation
AND 'the Restrainer' is NOT said to be '(re)moved out of the way' it only says that He will restrain until the 'lawless one' is ready to be revealed - once again - 'the Restrainer' simply stops restraining He NOT is 'taken away' or 'moved out of the way' - could these be some of the 'lies' we are not to believe??
#19
ThomasDGW Wrote:"Nothing here states that Michael is taken out of the way."

Revelation 12 explains what it means to stand up: to go from earth to heaven to cast out Satan, thus being out of the way on earth.
That is a weak arguement.
The Day of the Lord and His wrath will occur even before Daniels 70th week begins.And we know that the rapture occurs before the Day of the Lord begins.
Also,...the Holy Spirit did not indwell believers in the O.T. other than influence people.The indwelling began at Pentecost and the Holy Spirit will be taken out of the way at the Rapture.
Greater is He that is is you than he that is in the world.
#20
Quote:That is a weak argument.
Better a ‘weak’ argument then NO argument…
Quote:The Day of the Lord and His wrath will occur even before Daniels 70th week begins. And we know that the rapture occurs before the Day of the Lord begins.
Really – all I ‘know’ is that ‘those who have remained alive will not precede those who have died IN Christ’.
Quote:Also... the Holy Spirit did not indwell believers in the O.T. other than influence people. The indwelling began at Pentecost and the Holy Spirit will be taken out of the way at the Rapture.
You have NO ‘evidence’ that the Holy Spirit WILL BE ‘taken out of the way’!!!!!!!
Quote:Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world.
AMEN to that!!!!!!!


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