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John 1:14
#1
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of an only begotten from a father, full of grace and truth.

St. John in his Gospel adapted the term (logos) to his purpose. In the prologue of 14 verses the idea of the Gospel is stated clearly and simply. The Logos, which is the eternal God, took flesh and became man, in time. The Logos is Jesus. The impersonal, remote God of Philo is not there; the intermediate Logos, neither God nor man, has been replaced by a Logos that is both God and man. This explanation of the relation of God and man ‘in Christ’ became an abiding feature of Christian thought. [online encyclopedia] (bolded mine)

John 1:14 και ο λογος σαρξ εγενετο και εσκηνωσεν εν ημιν και εθεασαμεθα την δοξαν αυτου δοξαν ως μονογενους παρα πατρος πληρης χαριτος και αληθειας

We will deal with these words in accordance with their importance and need και is a conjunction usually translated ‘and’ it appears frequently at the beginning of a new ‘thought’ because Koine Greek had no punctuation marks και was used to provide the necessary ‘break’ but it is also used to conjoin words and thoughts – ο λογος – as defined in 1:1-2 ο λογος is a ‘person’ of the ‘class’ God – σαρξ εγενετο – sarx means ‘flesh’ – egeneto means ‘came to be’, this is exactly the same word that describes the ‘creation’ of all things in 1:3 – how simply said – yet how impossible to ‘grasp’, to ‘apprehend’ –
in Philippians 2:5-7 we have Paul’s rendition of this ‘event’: who ‘existing in the form of God’ and being ‘equal with God’, ‘made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming to be in the likeness of men’ – and again in Colossians Paul refers to the ‘embodiment’ of the Deity: ‘for in Him all the fullness was pleased to dwell’ and ‘for in Him dwells all the fullness of Deity bodily’ – this ‘union’ of God and man has been the ‘prong’ of many an argument – I am not prepared to go beyond what is explicitly said – there appears to have been a ‘creation’ event in the incarnation for egeneto is used by John and Paul to describe that exact ‘happening’ – it is clear that ο λογος was existing in the ‘form’ of God and was ‘equal with God’ before He took the ‘form’ of and ‘came to be’ a man – yet ‘all the fullness of Deity’ was pleased to dwell in Him ‘bodily’ – what this means is that even while in the ‘form’ of a man His Deity was not impinged nor was His humanity affected – as one Church Council put it: He is ‘very God of very God – very man of very man’ – 100% God and 100% man – και (ditto)
– εσκηνωσεν εν ημιν – eskenosen sometimes translated ‘tabernacled’ may be an allusion to the presence of God in the Tabernacle it also could be translated ‘tented’ – en ‘among’ carries many of the same meanings as pros but apparently not the ‘intimacy’ of ‘community’ – emin ‘us’ – και (ditto) –
εθεασαμεθα την δοξαν αυτου – etheasametha I prefer ‘examined’ refer to 1 John 1:1 to get a ‘feel’ for the depth of the ‘gaze’ that is implied here – ten doxan autou ‘the glory of Him’ – δοξαν ως μονογενους παρα πατρος – an interesting turn of phrase – ‘glory as of an only-begotten from (the side of) a father’ – note that there is no ‘article’ with this δοξαν, I believe this entire phrase is a parenthetical statement describing the ‘type’ of glory that was observed, it was the ‘sort’ of glory that is attendant to an ‘heir’ who has been sent in his father’s name as an ambassador, this ‘kind’ of function for an ‘heir’ was ‘common’ in John’s day, some translations try to imply that this is a reference to ‘the Son’ coming from ‘the Father’, I think that is a bit of a overstatement as there is no ‘article’ for only-begotten this could be any only-begotten not a specific only-begotten and only-begotten is not a specific reference to ‘the Son’ so ‘from (the side of) a father’ is not necessarily a reference to ‘the Father’ – πληρης χαριτος και αληθειας – pleres is the same word used by Paul to describe ‘all the fullness’ of Deity that dwelt in Jesus – still we are talking about the incarnation of ‘the Son’ and as the parenthetical suggests ‘if there is a son who has come from a father – then there must be a father from whom the son came’ – that makes for two ‘persons’.
#2
(09-12-2011, 04:00 PM)Oliver Wrote: – still we are talking about the incarnation of ‘the Son’ and as the parenthetical suggests ‘if there is a son who has come from a father – then there must be a father from whom the son came’ – that makes for two ‘persons’.

That was a whole lot of words.....so to simplify for my understanding of what you are trying to say.......

Is the Son who is from the Father.......are they of the very same Spirit? And if they are the very same Spirit........how are they two different "persons"?

#3
(10-11-2011, 12:01 AM)HonestAbe Wrote:
(09-12-2011, 04:00 PM)Oliver Wrote: – still we are talking about the incarnation of ‘the Son’ and as the parenthetical suggests ‘if there is a son who has come from a father – then there must be a father from whom the son came’ – that makes for two ‘persons’.

That was a whole lot of words.....so to simplify for my understanding of what you are trying to say.......

Is the Son who is from the Father.......are they of the very same Spirit? And if they are the very same Spirit........how are they two different "persons"?
You will have to refer to my thread 'John 1:1-2' for an answer...
#4
I was just trying to keep it simple , right here. I just wanted a simple statement not alot of words. One sentence should do it. A thread is not necessary.
#5
(10-11-2011, 08:08 AM)HonestAbe Wrote: I was just trying to keep it simple , right here. I just wanted a simple statement not alot of words. One sentence should do it. A thread is not necessary.
Sleepy Rolleyes
#6
When we speak of flesh and the world, automatically we think of evil and corruption. In the beginning G-D created the Heavens and the earth, and man. G-D saw the light that it was good, and blessed man, and the earth.I have been thinking of when Yeshua spoke about the law of tradition of eating before washing your hands;

Matthew 15:16And Yeshua said, Are you also yet without understanding?

17Do you not yet understand, that whatsoever enters in at the mouth goes into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?

18But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

19For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

20These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

It is not G-D's creation of the earth that is evil, but what comes from mans heart,[Genesis 5:5] Evil comes from separation of man's spirit from G-D's Spirit that leads us, and not what is of the earth. G-D's Word is manifested within flesh to speak His Word with our lips and voice,His Word is within the pages of paper in the Bible we read,and is carried within out hearts, and within our actions.

If Yeshua had not physically died, would there still be salvation for man?It is in this act that our flesh will become incorruptable, as His in ressurection. When G-D's Word becomes flesh., and His Spirit lives eternally within us!
#7
(11-06-2011, 03:42 PM)joeyjohnsonvnye Wrote: hello everyone. This is my very first visit to this great place.
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#8
Look for God in your heart....not in your head.....sometimes the intellect of men stops them from seeing the truth....they get caught up in the words and their meaning...see with your heart not your head and God will give you what you need to find faith in Him and His truth.

shandle
#9
(11-06-2011, 08:41 PM)shandle divora Wrote: Look for God in your heart....not in your head.....sometimes the intellect of men stops them from seeing the truth....they get caught up in the words and their meaning...see with your heart not your head and God will give you what you need to find faith in Him and His truth.

shandle
Amen!

#10
Jer:17:9: The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Listen for HIS VOICE! And Obey HIM. Don't lean to your own understanding.


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