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Do we die and go to heaven?
#1
Where do we go when we die?
Many say we go to heaven.
They have been telling this lie for a long time.

1Ti 4:7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself [rather] unto godliness.

2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Does the Old Testament teach we go to heaven?

Solomon the wisest man who ever lived says who knows where the soul goes
after death.

Ecc 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all [is] vanity.

Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Ecc 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Modern churches pass on fables, and old wives tales about death.

It sounds so nice you die and go to heaven, wow.
It does not matter if it is true or not I want to believe it!!

How can christians say they believe in the resurrection of the dead if you are
already in heaven?

May G_D bless your study of His OT
#2
Keep in mind that the book of Ecclesiastes was written by Solomon while in a state where he had clearly lost the consciousness of the presence of G-D..

That being said I understand what you are asking here..
I will simply state this. That G-D exist outside of our Time/Space realm.. We are experiencing our fleshly physical Time/Space realms while we are still in the flesh.. Once we are no longer existing in the Flesh (Passed Away) that part of of which remains now is existing beyond our Time/Space realm..
I am not going to claim to fully understand the properties of existence beyond our own realm but will simply state that once we are outside of it we are for all intents and purposed outside of Time and Space as we know it.. So all notions of When we died and Where we are will have no relevant connection to the way the we perceive our existence while in the flesh.

G-D see us as we are at all time and all places and all possibilities .. The process in which we exist is for our sake not His. We in our limited capacity for universal awareness need to only understand the fact that we can only have observance of a mere sliver of the way that the universe under G-D truly exists.
#3
To say "we enjoy Heaven" is a self-fulfilling prophecy, since having nothing else to get excited about, a person believing this will naturally get over excited.

In reality, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy by which we enjoy Heaven, in this life (before it is gone forever - into the hands of the faithful).
#4
Solomon gives the key to understanding his writings of God's wisdom in the phrase "under the sun", which defines his focus on this physical world. Our physical bodies die, they know nothing, all their desires perish, etc. This is important to keep in mind as we make decisions as to what to do in this physical world with our lives. However, Jesus cleared up the issue in Matthew 22:32, by explaining that these references to death do not apply to the inner person. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are still very much alive, or God would not be their God. The dead know nothing at all, but the dead in the cemeteries are dead only physically. They are alive in their spirits and know quite a bit. II Corinthians 5:8 gives a definitive statement that when leave this body, we go to be with the Lord. I understand that this is a change brought about by the resurrection of Jesus. When the resurrection day comes, it will not be to make us alive again, but to restore to us a body, a new house, as II Corinthians 5 states.
#5
Nope, cemeteries are still full of the faithful. You get what everyone else gets.....dead!

Ta dah!!!

Avraham

#6
(12-15-2011, 09:07 AM)Avraham Wrote: Nope, cemeteries are still full of the faithful. You get what everyone else gets.....dead!

Ta dah!!!

Avraham

In the next life, Jesus is the One who reminds you of this life and the One who points to what is next, in the next life.

Beyond that, He is the One who receives your praise.

If you have no praise, you have nothing (to enjoy).
#7
'In the next life, Jesus is the One who reminds you of this life and the One who points to what is next, in the next life."

He went to prepare a place for "those of you standing here" and never returned.

'Beyond that, He is the One who receives your praise."

Well at least he is listening to me because he ignores you guys.

"If you have no praise, you have nothing (to enjoy)."

Just had crackers and Pepper jack cheese with my lovely wife. That was quite enjoyable actually. When shes says she is returning she keeps her word. I don't have to explain it away.

Ta dah!!!

Avraham

#8
(12-15-2011, 11:35 PM)Avraham Wrote: 'In the next life, Jesus is the One who reminds you of this life and the One who points to what is next, in the next life."

He went to prepare a place for "those of you standing here" and never returned.

'Beyond that, He is the One who receives your praise."

Well at least he is listening to me because he ignores you guys.

"If you have no praise, you have nothing (to enjoy)."

Just had crackers and Pepper jack cheese with my lovely wife. That was quite enjoyable actually. When shes says she is returning she keeps her word. I don't have to explain it away.

Ta dah!!!

Avraham

Great answers! You are living for the world and you admit it!

Now you just have to work out "why?"

Why?

#9
"Great answers! You are living for the world and you admit it!"

Hate to break it to you but so are you. Where do you live? Do you have your own Universe like Thomas does? Are there faeries there? Trolls? Meany demons?

"Now you just have to work out "why?""

Because G-D created it and put me here. Good LORD you guys are perverse.

Ta dah!!!

Avraham

#10
Solomon the wisest man who ever lived describes life so it is easy to understand.

Our flesh is the same animal flesh as a rat or dog and we all die and go to the grave!
Dust thou art ! Stardust by the way!

This process has been going on for a long time, telling us where the angels came from, just like us.
The angels went through the same things we are going through.

All [things come] alike to all: [there is] one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as [is] the good, so [is] the sinner; [and] he that sweareth, as [he] that feareth an oath.

Ecc 9:3 This [is] an evil among all [things] that are done under the sun, that [there is] one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness [is] in their heart while they live, and after that [they go] to the dead.

Ecc 9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun.

Modern churches teach fables, old wives tales about heaven.

They take wrested bible scripture from the NT and try to twist it to say we go to heaven when we die.
The OT is clear about death.

All things perish at your death, love, hate, etc

May G_d bless your study of His Holy Old testament which is full of future events, prophecy.


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