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"Born" again?
#1
Question 
Inasmuch as I believe salvation is a process and not a specific moment in time, I also understand being born again as a process as well. By that I mean, birth: begettal, maturation, and then parturition. I see beggettal as the time when one believes, is baptized, and has the Holy Spirit indwelling. I then see maturation as the intervening time in our lives wherein we are growing in grace and knowledge, developing the mind of Christ, and overcoming. I understand the final phase, parturition, to be that of the actual birth (i.e. born again). These are just terms I use to describe the way I think of the idea, though I believe it differs from prevailing Christian belief that people are already born again right now. I am very curious as to what our esteemed forum members' personal thoughts are on this issue. I also realize there are various differences in what one believes being born again entails. It is a very interesting topic nonetheless. Thank you in advance, guys. Smile
#2
Hello Sandra – I also have and use Green’s Interlinear (but without Strong’s numbers) – I also have an NT translation based on this Interlinear called the KJV – Twentieth Century Edition – it’s ‘OK’.

I too consider ‘Salvation’ to be a process; however I ‘see’ that there are one-time events associated with the process that are not repeated. For instance, there is a beginning and an ending to the process – one does not begin the process over and over again nor when one completes the process is there any need to come again to its conclusion. The beginning event I understand to be called ‘Justification’; in between the beginning and the ending is the actual process and this I understand to be called ‘Sanctification’; and the ending event I understand to be called ‘Glorification’.

It is noteworthy that Salvation is a Gift and as such we ‘do’ nothing to ‘earn’ it, we merely ‘receive’ it as a Gift of Grace through Faith – the gifting of Salvation to us points to that fact that Salvation is wholly of the LORD and as such each ‘phase’ and every ‘facet’ of each ‘phase’ is of the LORD’s doing – all we ‘do’ is believe.

I also ‘see’ that there are multiple ‘facets’ to each of these ‘phases’ of Salvation – Justification entails all of the ‘first things’ that must occur to put us into ‘right standing’ with ‘the Father’, one of the primary elements of achieving that ‘right standing’ is to ‘become His children’ – we ‘receive’ Him (for who He is – LORD and Savior) and ‘believe’ in His name whereby we are ‘born of God’ [John 1:12-13] – we are ‘born from above’ [John 3:3, 7] – we are ‘born of the Spirit’ [John 3:6] – to me being ‘born’ is a ‘first thing’ that must occur – growing up or maturing is what follows – therefore I feel ‘born again’ and I am growing (up) in the LORD.
#3
That is a very thoughtful perspective, Oliver, but then again you are a deep thinker and always give such consideration to a matter before you answer it. I sincerely respect that trait in you. And although I differ somewhat in my thoughts on the process we refer to above, I see easily and do understand how you glean what you do on this topic from the scriptures. That is truly a tribute to your indepth explanation of your convictions as demonstrated in your response. Hopefully, we will hear from others as well so we can see where they stand, too. Again, thank you for your insights.
#4
The vital importance of baptism; it is the first step of obedience to the Gospel message. Heb. 6:2 speaks of baptism as one of the most basic doctrines.

True baptism can only occur after a correct grasp of the basic truths which comprise the Gospel.

, then baptism is an absolute necessity.

"Salvation is of the Jews" (John 4:22) in the sense that the promises concerning salvation were made only to Abraham and his seed. We can only have those promises made to us if we become in the Seed, by being baptized into Christ (Gal. 3:22-29).

ADULT BAPTISM NOT BABY SPRINKLING

Jesus therefore clearly commanded his followers: "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel (which is contained in the promises to Abraham - Gal. 3:8) to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" (Mark 16:16).

How can a baby believe?

Reflection upon this word "and" reveals that belief of the Gospel alone cannot save us; baptism is not just an optional extra in the Christian life, it is a vital prerequisite for salvation.

This is not to say that the act of baptism alone will save us; it must be followed by a lifetime of continued obedience to God's Word. Jesus emphasized this: "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (John 3:5).

This birth "of (Greek 'out of') water" refers to a person coming up out of the waters of baptism; after this, he must be BORN AGAIN of the spirit. This is an on-going process: "Being BORN AGAIN...by the Word of God" (1 Peter 1:23).

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

BY THE WORD OF G_D THE BIBLE!

Thus it is through our continued response to the Spirit Word that we become born of the spirit .

As a tired, spiritually triumphant old man, Paul could reminisce: "I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision" (Acts 26:19). As was true for Paul, so it is for all who have been properly baptized: baptism is a decision which one will never regret.
All our lives we will be aware that we made the correct choice. Of few human decisions can we ever be so certain. The question has to be seriously answered: 'Why should I not be baptized?'

May G-d bless your study of the bible
#5
Hello EP888,

There's a whole lotta shakin' goin' on, eh? LOL!!! Sorry, couldn't resist....it's the closet Elvis fan in me who keeps popping up, I think. I'm even blowing the dust off all those albums from back in the day.....hey, we actually have a limited edition copy of the blue vinyl album he made in the 70's, Moody Blue....it's da' bomb! Big Grin Man, I should open up my own museum of Elvis artifacts! Smile
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But I do digress......I am in complete agreement about that sprinkling vs complete immersion issue of baptism that you raised. I understand that total immersion is the only sufficient method as it is symbolic of the grave--putting the "old man" into the watery grave and emerging a "new man", as it were. Sprinkling does not and can not, IMHO, cut it there. Or that other aspect of people getting baptized on behalf of dead relatives....very strange concept. Does anyone know where that originated?
As for actually being born again--I lean towards it being when we become spirit instead of while we are corporeal beings, as we are at this moment. "That receiving birth from the flesh is flesh, and that receiving birth from the spirit is spirit" (John 3:6) I can see that I am still flesh & blood, so I can't be considered born again just yet since I am not spirit.
"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin because he has been born of God." (1 John 3:9) As human beings, we still commit sin, so no human being who has ever sinned qualifies as born again by this standard, either. Baptism is absolutely crucial, as is the laying on of hands for the receiving of the HS, but I see the remainder of my lifetime as a human as the duration of my growth and development as one of His elect. Enduring to the end, whether Christ's return or my own death, is when I expect to be literally born again.

What do you guys think and why? And again, thank you for your replies.
#6
Quote:as is the laying on of hands for the receiving of the HS

I don't know what you mean by this. Are you saying that unless a person who is born again physically touches a person for the purpose of making them born again that a person is not actually born again?

By the way; I just checked my Interlinear; it also is Green'sTongue

#7
(01-05-2012, 03:21 PM)Kelvyquayo Wrote:
Quote:as is the laying on of hands for the receiving of the HS

I don't know what you mean by this. Are you saying that unless a person who is born again physically touches a person for the purpose of making them born again that a person is not actually born again?

By the way; I just checked my Interlinear; it also is Green'sTongue

You have an Interlinear, too? Is it the edition with the Strong's numbers above each word also? I LOVE mine. Big Grin Kudos to you, buddy!
As for the laying on of hands--I am referring to what we read in Timothy about the gift of the HS & I should've included it last post, but I didn't. Mea Culpa. Recall that Peter said in (Acts 2:38) "Repent and be baptized, each of you on the name of Jesus Christ to forgiveness of sins; And you will receive the gift of the holy spirit." Then I see in (1 Tim 4:14) "Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you through prophecy by the laying on of the hands of the elderhood." I understand this to mean upon baptism, quite possibly while the person baptizing you has their hands on you, if not immediately after.
Of course, I am aware (as are you) that earlier in Acts, a large group were all congregating together and received the HS en masse.....a truly miraculous occurrence, and not the way it is is usually imbued, from what I understand.
Anyhow, that's what I meant by the phrase "laying on of hands." Smile
#8
I seeSmile

My own interpretation of that was the following (not arguing just sharing):

In those early days of The Church; the early fathers indeed had a special gift of the Holy Spirit. One of them indeed seemed to be that ability to make people believers just by touching them. There are several instances where it seems clear that all that those early fathers had to do was lay hands on a person in order for them to accept the Holy Spirit and believe in Messiah. I believe that the Holy Spirit has many different gifts that it may bestow on people. One of the most profound in addition to the ability to directly transmit the Holy Spirit to enable belief was also the ability to transcribe the Word of The Lord unto what we now know as the New Testament.
Now I and several that I know personally are truly born-again; but at no point that I know of did anyone come and lay hands on us but I do TOTALLY agree that the Holy Spirit is the only thing responsible for our coming to know the Truth..
BUT that is not to say that the Laying of Hands as you speak could not be a spiritual thing.. or perhaps when we were Baptized as children and it took that long for us to really be affected by it.. I am not going to speculate one way or another, I suppose.
I surely WISH that we could have that power today to Lay Hands to make people believe..
But the one scripture that makes me think that those kinds of gift of the Holy Spirit were reserved for those early Saints is "so that no man may boast before God."
However if a person claims to be born-again of the Holy Spirit because a person had lain hands on them; I certainly would never try to deny it as long as they openly proclaim that Jesus is Lord.. however I might remind them that all things come from the Father.

Oh; and certainly; my Interlinear has Stong's Numbers; I have that sitting right here a few inches from me along with the Strongest Strong's Concordance. The one thing that I still want to get t compliment it all is a magnifying glassCool
#9
Wow, I had never heard that story before, Kelvy. And I thought I'd been around the block a few times..... Tongue
Anyway, it is so interesting to compare and contrast our views of God's perfect gift: what it means, how we get it, when we get it, and whether or not we can lose it. Which brings me to the next question....and yes, it is still very much on topic as it pertains to being born again in the most primary, foundational sense. And that is this: Do you guys here on JFJ believe you can lose the HS or have it taken away once you've been imbued with it? I believe that it is indeed possible to lose it, and with it, our salvation; So this is a big deal, in my humble opinion, I mean. Once more, thanks to everyone for chiming in.
#10
BTW, Kelvy....is your Green's Interlinear in a set or a single big book like mine? I ask cuz someone here said they were getting it in a several volume set. TIA!


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