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To Some On Here, Naming Names
#21
YehudiahOfYeshua Wrote:There are people on here who I want to address. Here's why:
1. Elohim is a Trinity.

ISAIAH
12 Hearken unto Me, O Jacob, and Israel My called: I am He; I am the first, I also am the last.
...
16 Come ye near unto Me, hear ye this: From the beginning I have not spoken in secret; from the time that it was, there am I; and now the Lord GOD hath sent me, and His spirit.

#22
Isaiah 48
#23
Kosherette Wrote:There are two plural forms in the Hebrew language, one form that means two, and another form that means three or more.  Elohim is the plural of El (God), and it means three or more.

In classical Greek, there is such a thing as dual. We read the verb λύετε as "you release" (plural) and λύετον as "(the two of) you release" (dual) or even "they (two) release." There are also dual endings for nouns, so that we might say that οἶκοι is plural for "houses" while οἴκω is dual for "two houses." Even this is not too common in classical Greek.

And it's quite different in Hebrew. We do find a dual ending for very specific forms in Hebrew. For example, ימים yamim means "days" (plural of יום yom "day"). There's also a dual יומיים yomáyim, meaning "two days."

The dual ending is used in time expressions: יומיים yomáyim "two days," שעתיים sha'atáyim "two hours," שנתיים shnatáyim "two years," חודשיים chodsháyim "two months" – though notably not with שתי דקות shtei dakot "two minutes" or שתי שניות shtei shniyot "two seconds."

The dual is also used with body parts that come in pairs: ידיים yadáyim "hands," רגליים ragláyim "feet" or "legs," כנפיים knafáyim "wings," אוזניים oznáyim "ears," אפיים apáyim "nostrils."

#24
(cont.)

We cannot just add a random dual ending to a noun and come out with something meaningful. The dual is restricted in Hebrew to a specific set of words and cannot be added to others.

We cannot, for example, say דקותיים *dkotáyim for "two minutes," since the language doesn't use the dual for that word. I mean, you could technically do this, but the word isn't used like that in the language.

The fact is, the word אלהים elohim doesn't have a dual form in the Hebrew language. Even if we were talking about two specific gods, we would surely say אלים elim without a dual form, though we might even say אלהים elohim. It depends on what's intended.

Not every word in Hebrew can take a dual form, as already stated. Similarly, most words that take a dual form will not take a regular plural form. It's not like every word in the language has the option of either being dual or being plural. There is no dual form of אלהים elohim, so what is your point in bringing this to the table?
#25
The issue isn't whether there is a dual form of the word, since we are talking about three.  There is certainly a singular form and there is also a form that implies three or more.  The point here is that Elohim does not denote a singularity, which makes sense since God is a Trinity.  I mean no offense when I say that whether there is a tense that indicates duality is irrelevant, since we are speaking of God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Ghost.  
#26
Kosherette Wrote:The issue isn't whether there is a dual form of the word, since we are talking about three.  There is certainly a singular form and there is also a form that implies three or more.  The point here is that Elohim does not denote a singularity, which makes sense since God is a Trinity.  I mean no offense when I say that whether there is a tense that indicates duality is irrelevant, since we are speaking of God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Ghost.  

Where in the Hebrew bible do you see G-d being described as "God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Ghost."?  
#27
‘In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.  And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters’. Gen 1-1,2

Here we see Father and Holy Spirit in the act of creations.  

‘And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness’.  

‘Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech’.  Gen 11:7

Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me!" (Isa 6:8
There is no reference to angels in these texts.  God is doing the sending and needs someone to go for ‘us’.

‘But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen’. Hosea 1:7

God here is speaking in both the first and third person.

‘By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.  By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth. The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.  When he prepared the heavens I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the earth:  When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways’.  Prov 8:15-16, 27-30, 32

These verses refer to God’s Son.


‘Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his: And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding’. Daniel 2:20-21

‘hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness’  

These verses refer to God the Father.  His actions are said to be his son when spoken of by God the Father and by his Son.  


#28
‘The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool’. Psalm 110:1

‘neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.  Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore’.  Psalms 16:10-11  

This refers to God’s Holy One’s resurrection and place at the right hand of God.


‘The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings to the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;’ Is. 61:1

God’s Son here speaks of the Holy Spirit on Him

‘But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them’. Is.63:10

‘where is he that put his holy Spirit within him? That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, diving the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name? That led them through the deep, as an horse in the wilderness, that they should not stumble? As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.’ Is. 63:10

The Holy Spirit is said to be leading the people.  God is also said to be leading the people.

‘And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness’.  

This refers to God’s Son

‘And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, it is my people: and they shall say, the LORD is my God’.  Zech 13:9

Here God refers to himself as a refiner of his children.  
#29
‘And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourned for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.  Zech 12:10  

In verse 1 it states clearly that these are the words of God.  Here God refers to pouring out his spirit as well as referring to himself as the one who was pierced.  The one pierced was his Son.

‘The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness.  Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God’. Isaiah 40:3

This is a prophecy referring to John the Baptist.  He prepared the way for Jesus, the Son of God and yet the scripture says to prepare a way of the LORD.  
#30
Kosherette,

Do you read much of the Torah? I would suggest that you look at the Hebrew text of Genesis 24:9-10. Do you notice the word àÂãÉðÈéå adonav? Is that singular or plural? Who is it referring to? Is it because the person referred to is similar to God and is essentially a plurality?

What about Genesis 39:2-3, 7-8, 16 and 19? Who is referred to? Is the word adonav singular or plural? Is there some comparison between God and this individual? Why do you think a plural form might be used throughout the chapter?

Thanks.


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