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Evolution
#1
Alright, let's talk evolution, who here agrees that it might be plausibly acceptible? I have been watching a Discovery Channel docuementary on Noah's ark, explaining that the story of the ark might not have been as so catastrophic but instead local, which might actually harmonize and authenticate biblical authority.

I've heard some of the creationist arguements and I was convinced at first but apparently it leaves some holes in it's theoritcal standpoint that only evolution has been able to answer:

For instance, why do we have hair in strange disturbing places similiar to that of apes? I've seen hair grow on my feet, it's all too strange.


Although I'm not sure, I just want to see some convincing arguements from both sides, if they can be offered, as I'm very much questioning the standpoint to the meaning of human existence and God (do we go somewhere when we die or are we just advanced apes? etc.,), I've seen many poor poor atheistic arguements and childish philosophies being tossed out by non-believing self-proclaimed "infidels" (see: http://www.whywontgodhealamputees.com )

I am having a hard time deciding who is right and who is wrong, is Genesis figurative and can explain evolution without the use of a literal 7 day creation with pure life forms at first or is Genesis an outdated myth that has been countered by science?
#2
The_Prophet Wrote:Alright, let's talk evolution, who here agrees that it might be plausibly acceptible? I have been watching a Discovery Channel docuementary on Noah's ark, explaining that the story of the ark might not have been as so catastrophic but instead local, which might actually harmonize and authenticate biblical authority.

I've heard some of the creationist arguements and I was convinced at first but apparently it leaves some holes in it's theoritcal standpoint that only evolution has been able to answer:

For instance, why do we have hair in strange disturbing places similiar to that of apes? I've seen hair grow on my feet, it's all too strange.


Although I'm not sure, I just want to see some convincing arguements from both sides, if they can be offered, as I'm very much questioning the standpoint to the meaning of human existence and God (do we go somewhere when we die or are we just advanced apes? etc.,), I've seen many poor poor atheistic arguements and childish philosophies being tossed out by non-believing self-proclaimed "infidels" (see: http://www.whywontgodhealamputees.com )

I am having a hard time deciding who is right and who is wrong, is Genesis figurative and can explain evolution without the use of a literal 7 day creation with pure life forms at first or is Genesis an outdated myth that has been countered by science?

Evolution is a theory perpetrated by Satan to confuse the truth...as has been his mission for centuries.

Men and monkeys cannot come together to create offspring...

Hair has an important function in both animals and man and is no indication we evolved from apes.

Evolution is taught in schools not in the bible.

Smile

#3
one_called Wrote:Evolution is a theory perpetrated by Satan to confuse the truth...as has been his mission for centuries.

Men and monkeys cannot come together to create offspring...

Hair has an important function in both animals and man and is no indication we evolved from apes.

Evolution says we came from common ancestor, simply put monkeys and apes did not exist prior to our seperation through speciation.

I was once bought into young earth creationism and then I was exposed to its major fallacies and erreonous claims, it just so happens that creationists use geology and cosmology, they hardily ever use biology.

Another logical question this addresses is that if we are special then why do we have so much in common with animals? Hair and whatnot, humans should be hairless and completely seperated from any type of animal, but this isn't what we see, so I'm in favor of theistic evolution until actual proof arises and cannot be refuted.
#4
one_called Wrote:Evolution is a theory perpetrated by Satan to confuse the truth...as has been his mission for centuries.

Men and monkeys cannot come together to create offspring...

Hair has an important function in both animals and man and is no indication we evolved from apes.

Evolution is taught in schools not in the bible.

Smile

Hmm, last time I checked I haven't seen anyone with horns and a pitchfork out handing out pamphlets on evolution.

But speaking seriously, your argument has nothing to do with the subject. The inability of men and monkeys to come together and create offspring in no way has any bearing on whether or not we evolved from a simian species. Plenty of animals sharing a common ancestor are unable, and of those that can reasonably often, they produce sterile offspring. If anything, that inability is an argument for evolution since they are close enough in genetics to appear similar but have diverged such that reproduction is impossible.
If God was the sole creator and there was no evolution, do you honestly think he'd be so unimaginative as to make so many things look similar to each other?

And as for things being taught in the Bible or not, should you really be here? Isn't the Internet just another Tower of Babel, an edifice, built by man, unifying him and celebrating his own greatness?
#5
The Prophet

I saw this and just had to respond. Am I a rocket scientist, No. To me its common sense. Evolution is the Myth. More and more scientific answers shows this. Even Darwin wrote that if the single cell, is more complex than I can see in my micorscope, then there is a God. But you will never hear that. Its true. We are in an age now of DNA scientific codes that can determine more information now then ever we knew before. You can not change DNA! Someone with 47 chromozones can not ever have a sibbling with 48. We are one off with apes. Think about it. Thank God. Evolution says we started from a single cell. Basicly in a pudle of water as the earth cooled all life came from that puddle. And get this that puddle of life changed on its own the way it is and what it is today. Millions and millions of differant species live on our planet. Look at some real facts. A flower? It has a smell, right! Why? Does it have a brain? No. Did it design its self? I don't think so. It has pollen right? Did the flower know that bees where around? So it designed itself so when the bees came around and it wanted to reproduce it designed itself to have the bees help to make seeds fertile and then flowers reproduce. Each needed each other to survive!! Its all around. In almost every aspect. Lets take a look at the earth. Scientists say IF it was a couple of miles closer or farther from the sun we would burn up. What keeps it in a perfect spot for life? How about Allagatorsare they desendents of dinorsours? Why are they still here than? Ever see a spider making a web? Who taught the spider how to do it in such away that it is totally amazing and mathamaticly designed. How did he know how to start it? Man has changed some things like cross breeding dogs. But ever see a cat dog? Except the cartoon my son watched called Catdog. Everthing works together. Everything needs something else. No trees no earth! No bugs and no earth! The soil would not breath for flowers if there where no worms eating the decay of last years flowers. And what they digard feeds the plants. The air that we breath we take for granted. Why doesn't the vacum of space just vacum it off the earth? We have more life right here on earth and we are looking out there in space. There is no sign of life out there to this day. Only talk of it. No sounds out there even with all the scientific equipment we have listening to absolutly nothing. Everything is so balanced here on earth and each needs each other to live. It all had to be designed by a creator. It just could not have just happened. The odds are to long to imagine more and more facts are coming right out of the bible that scientists are seeing. Do not rely on the discovery channnel. They only put up shows to make us think. Do you think that the earth is billions of years old? If so think about this. Than the moon is also as old, right. In 1969 when they went to the moon scientists thought that after billions of years there would be alot of dust on the moon. They where worried it might be 20 feet of dust as they estimated over those billions of years. It was only inches of dust!!! If the earth was billions or trillions of years old. Why is the center of the earth still very hot? Why do we still have Lava and alagators around still? There is so much more besides. Trees making oxygen for us and all the creatures on earth and they need what we all exhale. The oceans keep the earth warm. The ozone layer keeps us from frying up. ItsjJust commom sense when you go in your own yard and see!!! All did not just happen. This is not a freak show of 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 to .00001 odds that it all just worked on its own? Oh buy the way how does anybody think they can say that the flood didn't happen. Are they smarter then we think? All over the world there are signs in the soil of the deludge all over the earth. Sceintists even say live started where the bible says it started too.  Thats enough for me  got to go!!

Prasie his creation
#6
The_Prophet Wrote:Another logical question this addresses is that if we are special then why do we have so much in common with animals? Hair and whatnot, humans should be hairless and completely seperated from any type of animal, but this isn't what we see, so I'm in favor of theistic evolution until actual proof arises and cannot be refuted.

What special commonality do men have with animals, aside from the obvious? ( both reproduce, both have hair, both have brains)
  Who says humans should be hairless??
The reason there is an ongoing debate between creationists and evolutionists is the very fact that there is no proof for either side.
  Why should humans be completely separated from any type of animal?? We are after all of the "animal" kingdom [ Biologically speaking]

The highest ape has nowhere near the accomplishments of man even that of fallen man...they have never gotten beyond even the accomplishments of a mere child. They have been "trained" by man but never do they actually increase in intelligence on their own. They do not invent new creations or even aspire to do so.
In the evolution theory it is supposed that we have evolved from the sea...in that theory, one would have to provide a "missing link" not only between apes and man, but missing links between every other known species and man.
  For an instance...try to find the "links" between an ant and a bird...one is an insect and the other a foul. Even more demanding is to find a link between a bird and man... Birds fly naturally, man flies in jets...
If man evolved, we should expect man to grow wings.
  Lower animals do not know that they are animals, they do not write their thoughts, they do not try to figure out where they came from.
Evolution has far more gaps in it than the creation theory.
If there is any merit to evolution...it would more accurately be "de-evolution"...since man has become less civilized, and more degraded as the years go by.

Animals do not consider morality...right and wrong...good and evil, and as far as I can see they do not plan for the future.

It only makes sense that only man was created in the "image" of God Smile
#7
[quote=The_Prophet]


darwins theory of evolution is not heretcal. his opinions however, were. i believe darwin theory correct than error. this is my opinion and i show some stuff.

first i will say that before i told all that god made the world a special way. that 'way' bears witness to jesus! in other words im telling you that creation itself will show jesus is the lord. CREATION PARALLELS SPIRITUAL REALITY. things that you find it nature are used by god to give you a mental picture of the spirits you cant see.

(this is not some kooky extreme stuff . this well conceived ideas here, so dont huff and blow til you thought serious about it.)

examples:

god told abraham that his children will be as numerous as the sands of the shore. what does it mean? it means that abrahams children will be many?  that not all it means. besides, if you think dna is abrahams children than something serious wrong because the japanese are more numerous than dna children of abraham.

the shore is the beginning of the land from the sea. THE LAND REPRESENTS FAITH. land is above the water of the sea. so abrahams children are the people on the edge of faith that came up from the great sea of humanity. a fish comes out of the sea by a fisherman and he takes it to the land. that means a man comes up from the great sea of humanity and brought to faith. that the apostles do and so creation witness to jesus. jesus said, " i will make you fishers of men"? jesus said, " cast and hook and take the first fish and when you have opened his mouth you will find a piece of money, that take and give to the children and keep some for youself." you see the metaphoric use of creation used here to tell you christ is saying to peter...when you bring a new person/fish to faith/land and that person starts to witness/open his mouth you will have grace/money from heaven to be used for the children/church and a reward for yourself.

satan stands, according to john, on the sands of the sea, the lowest point on earth. so here we see that sea level become the line between good and evil. the line between faith and unbelief. (unbelief is evil to a degree. jesus walks above evil on the water. he tells peter if he had faith he can too!  satan supported by the evil people on the lowest point.(the sands of the sea)

i can walk on the water because i have faith in god. i know that science is not wrong and i see jesus in creation because i look. people say no that god made the world not science!! that true but god made it by science!! god made the science!!

my faith is jesus is stronger than my faith in science. a prophet can look at and prophesy. jesus said to peter, "if you have faith (in gods plan), you can prophesy to the mountain (not a geo mountain but the gospel one) lift thyself up and cast thyself into the sea (not the geo sea but the sea of humanity)." you see jesus is telling peter that god intend his gospel to go out to all the world. peter can "prophesy" to the mountain and tell it want it is going to do! (key operating word here is prophesy)

this gospel passage important for teaching because it a prophesy from jesus about the future of the gospel and it came true. the mountain of the gospel that his apostles cast into the sea of humanity did in fact go out to all the world. the mountain that filled the whole earth. and this going on while the living water of christ word covered over the sea at the same time. in fact, the water flowed down from the mountain of knowledge just like in the science of geology the water falls from heaven and flows down the mountain.

THE SEA REPRESENTS UNBELIEF, all nations tongues, etc. etc, . THE SANDS REPRESENT THE CHILDREN ON THE BRINK OF KNOWLEDGE. moses comes later and leads them to gods holy mountain, the knowledge of abraham. THE KNOWLEDGE RISES UP FROM THE FAITH/LAND LIKE A MOUNTAIN RISES OUT OF THE EARTH, which the earth is land. it rises up toward heaven. the 'stars' are 'sands' that went back to god having salvation. the sun is the lord and the moon is his bride. DAY is when the LORD IS WITH US (sun shines and give light), and NIGHT is when THE LORD IS AWAY, AND HIS BRIDE, THE CHURCH, refects the light of the  s-n while he is away. you see? creation tells a story. it no accident.

the bible says that god FORMED MAN from the dust (not MADE man but FORMED man),  this is important to note because MAN IS NOT MADE YET. ONLY HIS FORM IS MADE. the bible says that god THEN breathed his spirit into him. now the man is complete, body and soul.where does it say how much time elapsed between the forming and the breathing? nowhere! that we think it instantanious (in our time) is our stupidity. god can take an instant explosion (like the theory) and put on slow-mo like a playback, a zillion years our time. dont think he cant. the universe is still expanding says science.

( the soul is the 'man' god is interested in. he is made in gods image and likeness, spirt! HIS FORM IS NOT made in gods image and likeness. the form will pass away but the soul will not!  EVERYTHING YOU READ IN SCRIPTURE IS WRITTEN FOR THE SOUL. IT IS ADDRESSED TO THE SOUL FOR THE GOOD OF THE SOUL!!) "nowhere man" may think the world is at his command but when the form passes, nowhereman will be nowhere without salvation from the nowhere. hey jude! listen up! stop imagining there is no heaven. nah-nah-nah. creation talking to you.

the land of abraham is religion ,or teaching, of abraham. all his blood and his friends learned about god and believed. the friends were spiritually his children just as much as his blood. remember that god doesnt care about flesh, just the spirit. jesus said " if you were abrahams child, you would not try to kill me. this abraham did not do". these scribes and pharisees are not abrahams children even though they have the dna.


SEVEN DAYS ARE SEVEN STAGES. seven is perfection and this number of stages it took for god to PERFECT creation. the fact that after each stage the scripture says "it was night and then it was morning" means that god took a break between stages. elsewhere in biblical metaphor we see that day and night means god is interacting and not interacting. THE S-N IS WITH HIS HAND IN AND THEN THE S-N IS AWAY. LIKE THAT!

science and the bible are reconcilable. dont think that if one believes darwinian theory, that he doesnt believe in god. if science is accurate and stays accurate, it will eventually discover god. of course, if we dont destroy ourselves and/or our enviroment before it does. that why we need god.

this is too long i need stop. but i can tell many stuff and it not a freak things. it real and like a wheel!!  the science will tell you what god has done and is doing. do not confuse with the religion cult of scientology.

#8
"You can not change DNA! Someone with 47 chromozones can not ever have a sibbling with 48."

Yes you can, it's called random mutation. If you couldn't then explain people with Down's Syndrome. A lot of the time it's not beneficial, sometimes it is.

As for your other examples, ever consider the possibility of a compatibility between evolution and God. The one doesn't negate the other, would it not be a greater testament to his power if he set it so it could all play out, initiated the sequence and then stepped away to watch its progression.
#9
EDIT:

"A lot of the time it's not beneficial, sometimes it is."

The it is referring to random mutation not to Down's.
#10
The more that I think about it though, it does seem to be pretty ridicolous, I mean sure, there might be all sorts of dating methods, but if the evolution theory has to change constantly it makes you wonder.

Yeah, scientific theories may "adjust" but look at it this way:

1) Vestigal structures exist in almost everything

2) Vestigal structures are rare

3) ?


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