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Messiahs' genealogy?
#11
(12-15-2012, 03:23 PM)MAlan Wrote: [quote='FigLeaf' pid='83809' dateline='1355585263']
There is no such thing as a Christian, there are only Israelites and Heathens.

"And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch." -- Acts 11:26

[size=medium]Then the question becomes. Who? called them Christians in Antioch?

The word disciple in Hebrew from my studies means simply Home-Educated;

That is why Joseph of Arimithea who came across the ocean to claim the flesh remains of Christ's body, as well as being the one who purchased the tomb, is referred to as a Disciple of Christ's as well, Because, Joseph was Home-Educated by Christ himself;

Where do you think Christ was from the age of 12 to 30?

That would be the land blessings of Ephriam (or as we now know as England) that were yet to have been estabilshed; as at this point, only the land blessings of Judah and Jacob had been received, but then there is the land blessings of Manasah and Ephriam that have yet to have been established, by The Word of YAHAVEH; as Ephriam has yet to become the Great Common Wealth of Lands, that Our Father promised in HIS Word, that it would become. Gen: CH: 48

Praise be to YAHAVEH
Judah be to Yeshua Messiah/ Jesus The Christ

#12
Anyways; my apology is extended to Cavreil Eli for getting off topic of this thread.

I agree that it is cool that we can trace the flesh roots of Christ/Messiah back to the root of Jesse: What i think is even cooler though, is that we can also trace his spiritual roots all the way back tp the beginning of Our Positive Universe, and understand and not just beleive that YEA! we are in the shadows of hell.

As i recall Our Father YAHAVEH stating, that I place a flaming sword(truth) at the gates of Heaven; that No flesh man could ever pass.

Its not really looking at the earth from the other side of the firmiment/atmosphere that gives one a clearer picture of the over-all mess; but rather, Try to imagine what it would be like to look at this earth from the other side of the sun's point of veiw, or in other words, Our Father YAHAVEH'S point of veiw.

Praise be to YAHAVEH

Judah be to Yeshua Messiah/Christ
#13
I was hoping to see some discussion of the genealogies of Iesus as presented in the NT ~ to facilitate that end I have included both from the Complete Jewish Bible…

Mat 1:1 This is the genealogy of Yeshua the Messiah, son of David, son of Avraham:
Mat 1:2 Avraham was the father of Yitz'chak, Yitz'chak was the father of Ya`akov, Ya`akov was the father of Y'hudah and his brothers,
Mat 1:3 Y'hudah was the father of Peretz and Zerach (their mother was Tamar), Peretz was the father of Hetzron, Hetzron was the father of Ram,
Mat 1:4 Ram was the father of `Amminadav, `Amminadav was the father of Nachshon, Nachshon was the father of Salmon,
Mat 1:5 Salmon was the father of Bo`az (his mother was Rachav), Bo`az was the father of `Oved (his mother was Rut), `Oved was the father of Yishai,
Mat 1:6 Yishai was the father of David the king. David was the father of Shlomo (his mother was the wife of Uriyah),
Mat 1:7 Shlomo was the father of Rechav`am, Rechav`am was the father of Aviyah, Aviyah was the father of Asa,
Mat 1:8 Asa was the father of Y'hoshafat, Y'hoshafat was the father of Yoram, Yoram was the father of `Uziyahu,
Mat 1:9 `Uziyahu was the father of Yotam, Yotam was the father of Achaz, Achaz was the father of Hizkiyahu,
Mat 1:10 Hizkiyahu was the father of M'nasheh, M'nasheh was the father of Amon, Amon was the father of Yoshiyahu,
Mat 1:11 Yoshiyahu was the father of Y'khanyahu and his brothers at the time of the Exile to Bavel.
Mat 1:12 After the Babylonian Exile, Y'khanyahu was the father of Sh'altiel, Sh'altiel was the father of Z'rubavel,
Mat 1:13 Z'rubavel was the father of Avihud, Avihud was the father of Elyakim, Elyakim was the father of `Azur,
Mat 1:14 `Azur was the father of Tzadok, Tzadok was the father of Yakhin, Yakhin was the father of El'ichud,
Mat 1:15 El'ichud was the father of El`azar, El`azar was the father of Mattan, Mattan was the father of Ya`akov,
Mat 1:16 Ya`akov was the father of Yosef the husband of Miryam, from whom was born the Yeshua who was called the Messiah.
#14
Luk 3:23 Yeshua was about thirty years old when he began his public ministry. It was supposed that he was a son of Yosef who was of Eli,
Luk 3:24 of Mattat, of Levi, of Malki, of Yannai, of Yosef,
Luk 3:25 of Mattityahu, of Amotz, of Nachum, of Hesli, of Naggai,
Luk 3:26 of Machat, of Mattityahu, of Shim`i, of Yosef, of Yodah,
Luk 3:27 of Yochanan, of Reisha, of Z'rubavel, of Sh'altiel, of Neri,
Luk 3:28 of Malki, of Addi, of Kosam, of Elmadan, of Er,
Luk 3:29 of Yeshua, of Eli`ezer, of Yoram, of Mattat, of Levi,
Luk 3:30 of Shim`on, of Y'hudah, of Yosef, of Yonam, of Elyakim,
Luk 3:31 of Mal'ah, of Manah, of Mattatah, of Natan, of David,
Luk 3:32 of Yishai, of `Oved, of Bo`az, of Salmon, of Nachshon,
Luk 3:33 of Amminadav, of Admin, of Arni, of Hetzron, of Peretz, of Y'hudah,
Luk 3:34 of Ya`akov, of Yitz'chak, of Avraham, of Terach, of Nachor,
Luk 3:35 of S'rug, of Re`u, of Peleg, of `Ever, of Shelah,
Luk 3:36 of Keinan, of Arpakhshad, of Shem, of Noach, of Lemekh,
Luk 3:37 of Metushelach, of Hanokh, of Yered, of Mahalal'el, of Keinan,
Luk 3:38 of Enosh, of Shet, of Adam, of God.

I await your discussion…
#15
(03-14-2013, 12:56 PM)Oliver Wrote: I await your discussion…
1.) So, how does these conflicting geneaologies confirm Yeshua's right to the Davidic throne?

2.) Mary's geneaology is not stated anywhere in the NT.

3.) You can't inherit tribal lineage through a mother, only a physical father.
#16
(03-14-2013, 08:28 PM)Nachshon Wrote: 3.) You can't inherit tribal lineage through a mother, only a physical father.

Why then are you considered Jewish through a mother?
#17
A few more points can be made here:

> II Samuel 7:12-16 tells us that all Davidic kings must come through Solomon, son of David. Lk 3:31 traces Joseph's line through Nathan, David's son, thus disqualifying Joseph.

> The Torah tells us that tribal affiliation is passed only through the father, not the mother (Numbers 1:18). No matter what Mary's lineage, all she could give Jesus is Jewish identity (as derived from Ezra 10:2-3). Since all Christians agree Jesus had no human father, he has no claim to the tribe of Judah, and thus cannot sit on the throne, as per Genesis 49:10.

> Jeremiah 22:30 says Jeconiah was cursed to the point that none of his descendants can sit on David's throne, and indeed, the next king in Judah after Jeconiah is his uncle, Zedekiah. Mt 1:11 lists Jeconiah, and so everyone after Mt 1:12 is ineligible to be king.

> Of all the differences between the gospel's lineage accounts, the only names between David and Joseph on which they agree are Shealtiel and Zerubavel. This is telling because A. Why are these the only names they share if we are tracing, allegedly, the same lineage? and B. We know Shealtiel and Zerubavel are both directly descended from Jeconiah, so Luke hints to Joseph's cursed lineage as well.

> Since Joesph is not at all related biologically related to Jesus, we have no evidence Jesus is connected to David. If he was Joseph's actual son, he would have no chance sitting on David's throne.

> To say Joseph adopted Jesus doesn't solve the issue, since A. Where does it say Joseph did so? B. Adoption doesn't work to transfer lineage. C. Even if adoption could work, one would only be able to transfer his whole lineage, not bits and pieces, and so adoption would only work to further disqualify Jesus from the throne.
#18
(03-18-2013, 09:41 AM)benyosef Wrote: > Since Joesph is not at all related biologically related to Jesus, we have no evidence Jesus is connected to David. If he was Joseph's actual son, he would have no chance sitting on David's throne.

> To say Joseph adopted Jesus doesn't solve the issue, since A. Where does it say Joseph did so? B. Adoption doesn't work to transfer lineage. C. Even if adoption could work, one would only be able to transfer his whole lineage, not bits and pieces, and so adoption would only work to further disqualify Jesus from the throne.

Joseph and Mary most likely married within their same tribe of Judah. In which case, this would make the most sense and is the most likely scenario. Which could place both of them and Christ not only in the tribe of Judah but also the line of David.
#19
(03-17-2013, 05:35 PM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(03-14-2013, 08:28 PM)Nachshon Wrote: 3.) You can't inherit tribal lineage through a mother, only a physical father.

Why then are you considered Jewish through a mother?
Jewishness is determined by the mother, tribal lineage through the father.
These are two separate issues.
#20
So, you're saying Joseph, via adoption, gave Jesus his own cursed lineage? Great! We agree Jesus cannot possibly sit on David's throne.


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