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Messiahs' genealogy?
#81
(06-25-2013, 02:44 PM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(06-23-2013, 10:24 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Then why is land inheritance an issue for mixed-marriages based on ezra 9:12?
Because they would lose their inheritance if they did so. My point, is marrying within tribes does not affect inheritance. That is because they were suppose to marry within their tribes so the inheritance would not transfer from tribe to tribe.
Do priests have to marry within their tribe of Levi? I showed you this before - tribal intermarriage is not necessary.

(06-25-2013, 02:44 PM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(06-18-2013, 06:04 PM)Nachshon Wrote: So, if Mary's cousin, Elizabeth, married a guy from Zimbabwe, does that mean Mary has blood ties to Zimbabwe?
Of course not, but Mary and Elizabeth were cousins through blood.
Okay, but Mary has no definite trace back to Levi.

(06-25-2013, 02:44 PM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(06-18-2013, 06:04 PM)Nachshon Wrote: There are no inheritance issues with tribal intermarriage. Only in the case of fathers with no sons, are their only daughters to marry within the father's tribe. Everyone else is free to marry who they want. I showed you previously Cohen's can marry any virgin of Israel. And their daughter's can marry anyone.
A lot of Jews today claiming to be obedient don't have sons, they're not off the hook.
Not trying to have a son/child and willfully spilling seed are two different things. You can't be faulted for what you can't do.
Tzelophehad had 5 daughters and he wasn't faulted for not having any sons.

(06-25-2013, 02:44 PM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(06-13-2013, 05:36 PM)Nachshon Wrote: I'm not saying Aramaic is not more authentic. The issue is do you have a full aramaic translation that's earlier in time than the Greek translation?
I don't have one, and I can't think of one. However, I would think the fact that you need a copy of a copy of a copy going back to the original shows how old the original must be seeing as it couldn't weather the hands of time.

You don't have the original Hebrew in pictograph, but that doesn't mean it isn't older than the written Hebrew of today.
True. I'm just saying you go with the most accurate/earliest wrritings available.
#82
(06-27-2013, 05:58 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Do priests have to marry within their tribe of Levi? I showed you this before - tribal intermarriage is not necessary.

Yes it is, for the vast majority of Israel it is. Just because you're a Levitical priest doesn't mean you can claim a law isn't necessary because your tribe is exempt.

(06-18-2013, 06:04 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Okay, but Mary has no definite trace back to Levi.

She has Israelite ancestry but it isn't given, I could say that about every female in the Tanakh, because it is only the male line given.

(06-18-2013, 06:04 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Not trying to have a son/child and willfully spilling seed are two different things. You can't be faulted for what you can't do.
Tzelophehad had 5 daughters and he wasn't faulted for not having any sons.

Those daughters have to marry within their tribe. If this isn't being done in your Jewish circles then you've been in sin the entire time.

(06-13-2013, 05:36 PM)Nachshon Wrote: True. I'm just saying you go with the most accurate/earliest wrritings available.

But, the Aramaic is earlier than the Greek it was spoken along with Hebrew in that region of the world.
#83
(07-09-2013, 03:15 PM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(06-27-2013, 05:58 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Do priests have to marry within their tribe of Levi? I showed you this before - tribal intermarriage is not necessary.
Yes it is, for the vast majority of Israel it is. Just because you're a Levitical priest doesn't mean you can claim a law isn't necessary because your tribe is exempt.
No, it doesn't apply to anyone. Never did. David (Judah) married Saul's (Benjamin) daughter, Aaron (Levi) married Nachshon's (Judah) sister. No repercusions. We've been through this sooo many times and you still fail to show any evidence for sins on the part of David and Aaron in regard to tribal intermarriage.

(07-09-2013, 03:15 PM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(06-18-2013, 06:04 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Okay, but Mary has no definite trace back to Levi.
Sure she does but it isn't given, I could say that about every female in the Tanakh, because it is only the male line given.
Again. Focus like a lazer beam. If Mary's cousin Elizabeth married a man from Zimbabwe, would that make Mary a Zimbabwean? No. And if it isn't given, why are you using it as evidence that a Karaite wouldn't accept?

(07-09-2013, 03:15 PM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(06-18-2013, 06:04 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Not trying to have a son/child and willfully spilling seed are two different things. You can't be faulted for what you can't do. Tzelophehad had 5 daughters and he wasn't faulted for not having any sons.
Those daughters have to marry within their tribe. If this isn't being done in your Jewish circles then you've been in sin the entire time.
If they wouldn't marry within their tribe, then their inheritance would transfer to another tribe that they married into. Why? Because women do not determine tribal lineage. Husbands/father do when it comes to children. Follow the logic.

You constantly bring up and deflect to what I've done or what is being done in my circles without talking about what you've done or your circles. Why is that? Just stick to the point of discussion.

(07-09-2013, 03:27 PM)MessianicJew Wrote:
(06-13-2013, 05:36 PM)Nachshon Wrote: True. I'm just saying you go with the most accurate/earliest wrritings available.
But, the Aramaic is earlier than the Greek it was spoken along with Hebrew in that region of the world.
Ok.
#84
(07-10-2013, 09:23 PM)Nachshon Wrote: No, it doesn't apply to anyone. Never did. David (Judah) married Saul's (Benjamin) daughter, Aaron (Levi) married Nachshon's (Judah) sister. No repercusions. We've been through this sooo many times and you still fail to show any evidence for sins on the part of David and Aaron in regard to tribal intermarriage.

You don't understand Numbers 36. It applies in certain situations.

(06-18-2013, 06:04 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Again. Focus like a lazer beam. If Mary's cousin Elizabeth married a man from Zimbabwe, would that make Mary a Zimbabwean? No. And if it isn't given, why are you using it as evidence that a Karaite wouldn't accept?

You obviously don't understand the difference between blood relation between cousins as oppose to marrying someone you're not related to by blood.

The evidence she's a Israelite is her blood relation and being cousins with a Israelite makes that possible. You bringing up the marriage example isn't even the same thing.

(06-18-2013, 06:04 PM)Nachshon Wrote: If they wouldn't marry within their tribe, then their inheritance would transfer to another tribe that they married into. Why? Because women do not determine tribal lineage. Husbands/father do when it comes to children. Follow the logic.

I follow Jesus, you can follow a Greek thinking system all you want.

The ruling was they had to marry within their tribe, how do you not get that? If this is not being done today, then it is a transgression of the law. Not logic.

You can trace back to your tribe through a woman alone. You're confusing inheritance and simple tribal heritage.

(06-18-2013, 06:04 PM)Nachshon Wrote: You constantly bring up and deflect to what I've done or what is being done in my circles without talking about what you've done or your circles. Why is that? Just stick to the point of discussion.

Your Judaism circles are not Holy. You're the last one to be pointing to people and telling them to follow a law you haven't kept to begin with.

Is your passover lamb without blemish, a male of the first year?
Do you keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month?
Do you take the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein you shall eat it?
Do you roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the internal organs?
Do you let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remains of it until the morning do you burn with fire?
Do you eat the lamb with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and in haste?

And this day shall be to you for a memorial; and you shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; you shall keep it a feast by an ordinance forever.

Do you even abide to the above? Or is it some watered down seder process that is good enough because you don't have a Temple?
#85
(07-13-2013, 02:43 AM)MessianicJew Wrote: You don't understand Numbers 36. It applies in certain situations.
Numbers 36 applies only in the instance/situation of a daughter(s) who is/are the sole inheritor of an estate.

(07-13-2013, 02:43 AM)MessianicJew Wrote: You obviously don't understand the difference between blood relation between cousins as oppose to marrying someone you're not related to by blood.

The evidence she's a Israelite is her blood relation and being cousins with a Israelite makes that possible. You bringing up the marriage example isn't even the same thing.
You've been arguing Mary is a Levite? Then Yeshua cannot inherit David's throne through her, or his supposed father Joseph. I've never argued that Mary cannot be an Israelite. If Mary is from the tribe of David, I don't see how she can be cousins with Elizabeth. Definitely not 1st cousins, maybe 2nd since Elizabeth was trom the tribe of Levi too according to the NT. But then, there are no definite artifacts that attest to this so a true Karaite wouldn't accept this information unless it is written. You have to be consistent with your approach to exegesis, MJ.

(07-13-2013, 02:43 AM)MessianicJew Wrote: I follow Jesus, you can follow a Greek thinking system all you want. Your twisted thought process is a reason one should turn and run the other way from logic.

The ruling was they had to marry within their tribe, how do you not get that? If this is not being done today, then it is a transgression of the law. Not logic.

You can trace back to your tribe through a woman alone. You're confusing inheritance and simple tribal heritage.
Inheritance is through tribal lineage, Ezra 9:12. Numbers 36 only stipulates inter-tribal marriage for daughters who inherit their father's estate. Actually, your lack of facts in Yeshua's genealogy and your lack of understanding of Torah is enough to make any Jew ran away. Logic solves these problems.

(07-13-2013, 02:43 AM)MessianicJew Wrote: I don't have circles. And you're Judaism circles are not Holy. You're the last one to be pointing to people and telling them to follow a law you can't keep.
Again, deflect, that's your tactic. Do you know what holy means in Hebrew? It means consecrated, reserved for a specific use, preparing. I'd say this describes the Jewish people who follow Torah. I don't know which law you're talking about. But, I do know you can't support your assertions about Yeshua's geneaology. That's a fact.
#86
(07-13-2013, 10:21 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Numbers 36 applies only in the instance/situation of a daughter(s) who is/are the sole inheritor of an estate.

And is this law being kept today?

(07-13-2013, 10:21 PM)Nachshon Wrote: You've been arguing Mary is a Levite?

That she's Israelite.

(07-13-2013, 10:21 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Inheritance is through tribal lineage, Ezra 9:12. Numbers 36 only stipulates inter-tribal marriage for daughters who inherit their father's estate.

So is Judaism obeying this law or not?

(07-13-2013, 10:21 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Again, deflect, that's your tactic. Do you know what holy means in Hebrew? It means consecrated, reserved for a specific use, preparing. I'd say this describes the Jewish people who follow Torah. I don't know which law you're talking about. But, I do know you can't support your assertions about Yeshua's geneaology. That's a fact.

We'll see how much Torah you follow.

Deuteronomy 27:1-8, it doesn't say to build an altar in a place God shall choose, just to build one. And yet, do you do this?

Do you have in your bag divers weights great and a small?

Do you have in your house divers measures great and a small?

Do you have a perfect and just weight, a perfect and just measure?

Cursed be he that confirms not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.
#87
(07-13-2013, 10:21 PM)Nachshon Wrote: Again, deflect, that's your tactic.

This coming from someone who hasn't answered the below:

Is your passover lamb without blemish, a male of the first year?
Do you keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month?
Do you take the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein you shall eat it?
Do you roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the internal organs?
Do you let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remains of it until the morning do you burn with fire?
Do you eat the lamb with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and in haste?

And this day shall be to you for a memorial; and you shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; you shall keep it a feast by an ordinance forever.

Do you even abide to the above? Or is it some watered down Seder sit-down that is good enough because you don't have a Temple?
#88
(07-15-2013, 09:39 AM)MessianicJew Wrote: This coming from someone who hasn't answered the below:

Is your passover lamb without blemish, a male of the first year?
Do you keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month?
Do you take the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein you shall eat it?
Do you roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the internal organs?
Do you let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remains of it until the morning do you burn with fire?
Do you eat the lamb with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and in haste?

And this day shall be to you for a memorial; and you shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; you shall keep it a feast by an ordinance forever.

Do you even abide to the above? Or is it some watered down Seder sit-down that is good enough because you don't have a Temple?
Without a temple, there can be no korban pesach. I do keep the seder as Torah requires in commemoration of the Yetziyah Mitzraim.

Why didn't Yeshua make reference to the blood on the doorposts and his sacrifice since he kept all commandments instead of the wine MJ?
#89
(07-15-2013, 09:28 AM)MessianicJew Wrote: We'll see how much Torah you follow.

Deuteronomy 27:1-8, it doesn't say to build an altar in a place God shall choose, just to build one. And yet, do you do this?
MJ, read Deut 12:10-11. Since Hashem hadn't selected a tribe in which to have His house built yet, it didn't apply in 27:1-8

(07-15-2013, 09:28 AM)MessianicJew Wrote: Do you have in your bag divers weights great and a small?

Do you have in your house divers measures great and a small?

Do you have a perfect and just weight, a perfect and just measure?

Cursed be he that confirms not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.
Did Yeshua confirm Deut 17:14-20 and Numbers 19 with his contact with the dead? Sounds like his not perfect dude.

Do you know what the weights were used for Mr. Torah scholar?
#90
(07-15-2013, 09:39 AM)MessianicJew Wrote: Is your passover lamb without blemish, a male of the first year?
Do you keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month?
Do you take the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein you shall eat it?
By the way, wasn't Yeshua punched, smacked, whipped, left with physical blemishes, and he can be a perfect sacrifice? He didn't make reference to his blood and the blood on the doorposts - what's up with this MJ?


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